September 07, 2004

PERPETUAL LOATHING

My favourite protest sign at the anti-Bush rallies in New York: "I cannot believe that George W. Bush is so stupid, and I cannot believe that so many people dont see this." That sums up an attitude common among Bush-bashing literati, as observed by Mark Steyn:

In Sunday's Observer, Robert McCrum observed: "Today, by some margin, George W Bush is the most despised figure in America." Really? The paper sent McCrum to America to interview nine novelists about the election. That's the first mistake right there: shipping a guy 3,000 miles to take the pulse of the nation by interviewing a bunch of guys who already agree with him. One of the reasons why the Bush-despisers will be waking up stunned on the morning of November 3 is because they spend way too much time talking to each other and sustaining each other's delusions.

Makes you wonder who Ted Rall is talking to. Whos sustaining his delusions, which extend about a light-year beyond the median range of Bush hatred?

(Obscene Rall link via LGF)

Posted by Tim Blair at September 7, 2004 04:37 PM
Comments

That's Ted's a real gas, ain't he? Wonder what he does for laffs on weekends- piss in urns in crematoriums?

Posted by: Habib at September 7, 2004 at 04:45 PM

You can make exactly the same comment about the Howard-haters.

In fact, I'm looking foward to mass lemming-like suicides on Sunday 10 October, led by Philip Adams, Hugh Mackay and Margot, and let's not forget Andrew Wilkie and John Valder. Bitter and twisted public servants like Scrafton will be looking for new jobs; but the 43 dessicated diplomats should be safe on their seniors' pensions.

Posted by: Freddyboy at September 7, 2004 at 04:52 PM

George W Bush is not dumb - it's just that everyone else is smarter than him.

Posted by: the common good at September 7, 2004 at 05:02 PM

everyone else is smarter than him.

Well, maybe not you.

Posted by: Quentin George at September 7, 2004 at 05:05 PM

Mounting criticism of Putin and the government however was counterbalanced by a surge of rage against "terrorists" who have carried out the attacks in Russia and displays of nationalist fervor.

I thought this was great from the SMH - I love the " " around the word terrorist. Not seen this before. I'm sure it's meant to be nuanced.

Posted by: nova at September 7, 2004 at 05:21 PM

Oh Quentin - shucks! You nearly got me. You are brilliant. Once I recovered from your cutting repartee I remembered I did better than George's low C average at university. So phew! Intense relief. I am not dumber that George W Bush.
Quentin seriously - is that the best repartee you can manage?

Posted by: the common good at September 7, 2004 at 05:23 PM

TCG:

C'mon, man, your intelligence isn't displayed by your lack of knowledge of the basic usage of punctuation. So, please, refrain from (attempting to) insult anyone else until you learn to stop making a fool of yourself first. (This is mostly referring to your comments on this post.)

Otherwise, it's just a pathetic case of the pot calling the kettle black, see?

P.S. Einstein was considered slow by his elementary school teachers, and hated taking exams. Because of this, he had low grades (marks?) in school.

P.P.S. That's Albert Einstein. He developed the theory of relativity (e=mc^2), which was the basis for the atomic bomb.

P.P.P.S. The atomic bomb ended World War II, saving countless Allied and enemy lives. Too bad Einstein was an idiot that had low grades in school.

Posted by: david at September 7, 2004 at 05:39 PM

So, Common, you went to Harvard Business School as well, did you? Got an MBA from the world's top business college,right?

Posted by: mrl maggoo at September 7, 2004 at 05:42 PM

Since academic achievements = intellegence all of a sudden, I shall invoke my doctorate and declare tcg a spectacularly dumb fucker. Perhaps even dumber "that" George W. Bush.

I'm sure you're busy, probably desperately trying to spread Vegemite on toast with a child-safe compliant plastic spoon. But the toast always tears! Crikey! So let me craft your response (sorry, repartee) for you! I'm always willing to lend a hand to you short-bussers.

Eh ehmmm: [tcg] "Oh Dylan. I am sorry. You are smart. and stuff. Except than you are dumb too. like Bushya. Is that the best you can do?" [/tcg]

Posted by: Dylan at September 7, 2004 at 05:48 PM

What - are you seriously comparing Bush to Einstein? Like Wow!!!!!
I admire your devotion. That is deep and committed if I have ever seen it.
Oh and thanks for the advice about punctuation - thats the major chink in my armour that you could find was it? Well I will make you an offer - how about I might start making a few spelling errors as well so there will be another diversion for you to concentrate on.
And then if I develop a couple more problems with the English language, you'll be soon confusing me with someone else. Note the "you'll" - it's incredible, isn't it? Thanks cobber.

Posted by: the common good at September 7, 2004 at 05:50 PM

I am not really sure if the Ted needs to talk to anybody else, the voices in his head are keeping him company very well, thank you very much.

It really does amaze me that a total lack of any particular artistic talent still qualifies one as a political cartoon artist. That is provided they have the sufficient dearth of character to follow the leftist party line, of course.

Posted by: Todd at September 7, 2004 at 05:52 PM

Bit off the subject, but ...
I went to the University Library to catch up on the magazines, and the latest TIME had a photo of George W on the cover.
Before putting it out on the shelf, a university librarian had date-stamped it - right over the President's face.
I spoke to one of the Librarians who started laughing, until she realized that I was seriously concerned at the statement that had been made.
Even libraries are putting out the message that we they think) all hate GWB.

PS I'm not the david two posts up.

Posted by: david at September 7, 2004 at 05:53 PM

And Common, you're dumb enough to pilot a fighter jet, right? And so stupid you made a success out of owning a national football team? Not to mention being such a moron that you were elected leader of the free world. Gawd, that's a stunning display of ignorance.

Posted by: slatts at September 7, 2004 at 05:55 PM

Hey Dylan explain to us how George Bush is smart. I think that's the issue that none of you can address. Hence the personal attacks directed to me.
Sure, I think George Bush has some smart people around him but let's talk about him. He is just not that smart. Maybe you dont need to be that smart when you have smarties advising you but the question remains.
Too difficult to answer? Then why not launch a personal attack inlcuding language fit for the gutter on me - that education was worth every cent wasn't it Dylan?
Doctor, heal thyself.

Posted by: the common good at September 7, 2004 at 06:01 PM

So, Common, you know how to fly an F-102 Delta Dagger, right? Got 600 hours of flight time in the F-102, right?

Posted by: David Crawford at September 7, 2004 at 06:06 PM

Yeh thats right Slatts - it's not what you know, it's who you know.
Problem solved.

Posted by: the common good at September 7, 2004 at 06:07 PM

Basically, "the common good", you are what we like to call a worthless little piss-ant. Someone who has never done one thing in their pitiful little lives, other than jacking off to shemale videos, and yet you attempt to impugn what others have done and others intteligence.

Here's something thing you can do. List your current:

1. Occupation
2. Educational achievements (including GPA)
3. Salary

Prove to us that you are more intelligent than President Bush. Come on, it should be pretty simple for such a brainiac as yourself.

Posted by: David Crawford at September 7, 2004 at 06:16 PM

Hey Common Goof,

You still haven't answered the question.

Do you have a Harvard MBA? And if not, can you fly a fighter jet?

If you don't respond, I can only assume it's a really busy day at the cash register at the video rental store you work at, and your boss has informed you that she wants you to stay off her computer or she'll fire you.

Posted by: djc at September 7, 2004 at 06:19 PM

David how does flying a plane (two seat was it?) make you smart enough to run the worlds biggest military and economic power? Who you got next - John Travolta?

Posted by: the common good at September 7, 2004 at 06:20 PM

Ted Rall and The Common Good can both go fuck themselves.

Posted by: steve at September 7, 2004 at 06:21 PM

Sorry. Obviously, you are a gentleman or gentlethingie, and deserve better than these petty, undeserved, personal attacks.

He is just not that smart.
Beyond refute! Don't bother explaining! And now for your kung-fu death blow:

explain to us how George Bush is smart.

I don't know. Maybe he is too stupid to fix a sandwich. However, in addition to the points that Slatts makes, I would like to point out that all of the stupid accusations come from people who don't know the man. He's just dumb, har har getmeanothervodkatonicsweetie. If anyone can show me where GWB is described as smart or stupid by someone who knows him personally, I will take that into account, and modify my opinion accordingly. I do know that being able to "talk good" is a poor proxy for smart. More precisely, inability to speak well is a poor proxy for dumb. Really. You should hope the same applies for writing ability. Oops! I take the personal attack back! Backsies!

Sorry about the language "fit for the gutter". Please don't tell your mum on me, and I hope none of the gutter stuff got on your fucking pretty white dress there.

Posted by: Dylan at September 7, 2004 at 06:22 PM

david-

I don't suppose that it would do any good to point out that e=mcsquared is the matter conversion formula. Important for the atomic bomb, yes... but an entirely different concept from the theory of relativity.

TCG-

I'd bet that Bush knows this.

Posted by: nofixedabode at September 7, 2004 at 06:26 PM

I'm sure Common Goof is some form of gentlethingie

Posted by: djc at September 7, 2004 at 06:29 PM

Well, tcg, actions speak louder than words.

The way Bush has been able to consistently outwit his opponents, and run Kerry's "I-was-in-Vietnam" campaign into the ground?

I'd give props to that.

The Left: "Bush is dumb!"
Bush: "Sure, whatever. Now, for my second term..."

Posted by: Quentin George at September 7, 2004 at 06:32 PM

And tcg, I will totally concede that GWB got where is is by personal connections. Absolutely. It would take not perhaps more smarts, but more ambition to get to the presidency from say, lower-middle-class. But remember, when GWB was in the TNG/college, Dad wasn't really that big of a shot. So it wasn't likely a coast through business school. Harvard is full of priveleged children, and GWB would have been unimpressive at that time wrt to his family.

Posted by: Dylan at September 7, 2004 at 06:34 PM

Thanks David - I have to justify myself to you. Hey maybe you can give me a job when you see my degrees but you seem like a touchy boss, so maybe not.
Anyway the fact so many of you are annoyed and resort to personal abuse makes a neat point - you are all for free speech but only when people say what you want to hear. Otherwise launch a personal attack and ignore their argument. Divert the flow bro.
Also David I noted you had to resort to personal abuse. Thanks - thats satisfying - if you cant play the ball, play the man as they say.
Regarding this Harvard degree - I have some questions - I know he only got a low C pass. I assume they have the same pass fail standards as any other academic institutions - low C - whats that 55 per cent. And doesnt the fact it came from Harvard only prove one thing - he had the money to get in - I didnt think beyond their scholarship scheme that you could go there without lots of money. Did he get a academic based merit scholarship to Harvard? I could be convinced of some merit if that was the case.
Anyway how can someone with an MBA be so inarticulate? He booed again today with some mumbo jumbo about doctors that came out sounding wrong - again.
Anyway guys I know you are trying to make me the issue here - it's very flattering I can assure you but stick to the argument if you can.
And DJC I do work at the video rental store - but what with being smart and having no money - I'll never be President - it needs to be the other way around.

Posted by: the common good at September 7, 2004 at 06:36 PM

So, "common good", any ass-hole off the street can fly an F-102. Tell you what, I'll find out when the next convention of F-102 pilots is, and I'll send you there. You can tell that gethering of pilots that any ass-hole off the street, like yourself, could easily fly an F-102. Deal? You got my e-mail address. Lets do this thing.

Posted by: David Crawford at September 7, 2004 at 06:36 PM

Since we're calling George Bush stupid - what's new - I thought I'd pass this on (read it at The Federalist today by Duncan Maxwell Alexander):

" ... Some men claim the status of artists simply because they don't know how to change a tire. Men from the arty class can become parasites, making their try for greatness simply by throwing muck at men who are truly great. For some reason, that makes me think of Michael Moore. If his latest movie -- which perhaps should be entitled 'Paranoid 9/11' -- were truthful, no one would go see it. Its appeal is that it's deliciously false. It's the revenge of the weenies like Moore, who resent the new importance of masculine men like George W. Bush. Moore's audiences want to believe that the Arab jihad against us isn't real, so they can force the rest of us to read their lousy poetry."

Go on resenting George W. Bush. You know it makes you feel good.

Posted by: ilibcc at September 7, 2004 at 06:42 PM

Yet again with the free speech dodge?

Where does this blog claim that the comments section are free for you to express whatever opinion you want?

Hell, there's really no need for comment sections.

But anyway, tcg, sorry to bust ya tomato, but coming in, posting a "George Bush is dumb!" post, is trolling.

It adds nothing new to the topic, makes no point that has no been made before and lastly, and most seriously, isn't even funny.

Posted by: Quentin George at September 7, 2004 at 06:44 PM

Albert Einstein never had low grades at school. At some stage in his schooling the school changed the way of awarding marks. When historians looked at his marks they ckaimed they were low when in fact the school had merely changed the grading system . thus another urban myth was created .

Posted by: Ern O'Malley at September 7, 2004 at 06:46 PM

"common good" provide the link to support your contention that President Bush earned a "low C" at the Harvard Business School. He has admitted that he earned "gentlemen's C's" at Yale as an undergraduate, that's not a new story.

Also, I notice that you, who alleges that they are smarter than the President, won't detail your college record, occupation, or an approximation of your salary. I have a sneaking suspicion the answers are:

(1) One and half years of community college,
(2) Night-shift clerk in records room at a hospital,
(3) $14,800 a year.

Posted by: David Crawford at September 7, 2004 at 06:46 PM

Actually, I should had said that e=mc2 is the matter-energy conversion formula. My bad. So... there's proof that Bush is smarter than I am.

Here for the theory of relativity.

Posted by: nofixedabode at September 7, 2004 at 06:47 PM

Is that right Dylan? - wasn't Bush senior ambassador to the United Nations during his son's stint at the Air Guard. The allegation bandied around in the last week was that George was sent out of Texas to the Air Guard because his drinking antics were embarrassing his father at the UN. The former might be wrong but you'd think the latter was right chronologically speaking.
How high up was UN ambassador in the hierarchy in 71? Quite high I assume seeing Negroponte was the last one and he just got the Iraq gig. Just a few years later Bush senior was made head of the Central Intelligence Agency. So I am not sure if you're right on that one about Bush snr being not a high ranker at that time.
Anyway I dont recall saying connections got him his grades at university. Might have helped elsewhere.
Oh and Dylan, didn't former Treasury Secretary O'Neill make some adverse remarks about the President in the last year? I think there's your answer as to at least one person who has had high level dealings with him.

Posted by: the common good at September 7, 2004 at 06:50 PM

CG,

I'm confused.

From your comments I would gather in a utopia of social justice (only possible with the toppling of the bushhitler, of course), you would be the President of a video rental store that loses money.

That won't impress the Harvard MBA admission folks.

You could still try to learn how to fly a fighter jet. Join the Air National Guard!! Upon graduation, W will probably send you to Iraq or the next shithole in the Middle East that needs to be taken out.

Posted by: djc at September 7, 2004 at 06:56 PM

"commond good", here's a clue for you. On the internet, when you make an accusation, you back it up with a link that supports you assertion. Otherwise, you come off as some fat, drunk, and stupid video store clerk just ranting and raving. Back it up, or shut the fuck up, or look like the "comic book guy" from from The Simpsons.

Posted by: David Crawford at September 7, 2004 at 06:59 PM

Isn't anonynmity the great thing about the net Barry, I mean David? I think so.
But depsite this anonymous quality I detect you are of high social standing - why else would you make smug comments about people in lower status occupations such as hospital workers on low incomes. Yes the workers are revolting aren't they? Let them eat cake and all that. I totally agree Marie.
But DC, I can see by your continual requests for me to give my details that you have a hidden agenda here. The reality is that you are just itching to detail your own incredible salary and your own high brow qualifications.
So come on - go ahead - don't let my own reticence and sense of modesty prevent you from telling us your own details. But just remember, self praise is no recommendation.

Posted by: the common good at September 7, 2004 at 07:07 PM

djc Iraq has been a "catastrophic success" - how can you call it that s***hole name?

Posted by: the common good at September 7, 2004 at 07:09 PM

tcg: "it's not what you know, it's who you know"

not like Kerry, right? He's in this presedential race out of PURE MERIT. Hey pal, why don't YOU run for president? Man, when the electorate gets a load of your pure brain power, you'll be in like Flynn.

By the way - this bullshit angle of the democrats, you included, that just because a man isn't as "smart" as you all think you are means he can't make the right decisions is just pure crap. History is replete with dumb men making great decisions, whilst their so-called intellectual superiors fiddle while rome burns. Now I don't even think GWB is that smart, or that dumb - he's probably somewhere in the middle, an average guy in pure IQ terms. But his heart is in the right place and he's got strength of character, which is exactly what we need in a president.

Kerry is the exact opposite - he might be smarter, who knows, but he comes across as an indecisive, sweet-talking, self-aggrandizing creep to me. Smart, dumb, who gives a damn - I would rather GWB on my side simply because I trust him more.

And by the way, from a democrat, a representative of the party supposedly all about giving the average guy/girl a fair go, your obvious delight in wallowing in smug satisfaction that someone may be less intelligent than you is just disgusting hypocrisy.

Never trust a man who promotes his own intelligence ...

Posted by: Sho at September 7, 2004 at 07:19 PM

"But just remember, self praise is no recommendation. "

you got that right, pal. Pity you just signed your own credibility's death warrant - because you've done nothing but praise your own alleged intellectual superiority to GWB, Tim Blair, us, republicans in general and the world at large since you got here.

Guess you can't recommend yourself then, can you, genius?

Posted by: Sho at September 7, 2004 at 07:24 PM

Fine bit of hypocrisy there, TCG -- complaining about "personal abuse", when the whole argument was started by your personal abuse about George Bush.

But then, hypocrisy has always been the defining characteristic of the Left.

Posted by: EvilPundit at September 7, 2004 at 07:24 PM

Guys I think that we will be seeing a lot of trolls like tcg , Homer Paxton, Daup Hau et al in the run up to the Australian election. I suspect that at least some of them are ALP and will infest all of our favourite Australian sites with ALP/leftist talking points until its over.

Anyone up for odds on how long it takes tcg to get itself banned?

Posted by: Just Another Bloody Lawyer at September 7, 2004 at 07:24 PM

"...didn't former Treasury Secretary O'Neill make some adverse remarks about the President in the last year?

I'm not sure I follow the logic here: That someone makes adverse remarks proves... what?

O'Neill was/is a bitter man. Not one of the inner circle, he was often "out of the loop". And he had a book to sell. Many of his allegations have since been discredited. Many of his allegations weren't credible to begin with.

Maybe you haven't noticed, but it's possible for reasonable people to disagree. This doesn't mean that one or the other is automatically dumb or evil. Nor does it mean that one or the other is necessarily wrong.

But perhaps in the socialist utopia that many supporters hope a Kerry election victory will bring us, no one will ever make adverse remarks about the President ever again!

Posted by: Richard Blaine at September 7, 2004 at 07:24 PM

nofixedabode:

I apologize. You are correct. e=mc^2 is not the Theory of Relativity.

Posted by: david at September 7, 2004 at 07:25 PM

CG,

I didn't call Iraq a "catastrophic success". But the Iraqi situation does indicate a great deal of patience on the U.S. side.

You have to remember how "e=mc2" was applied the last time Yanks got fed up a fighting an enemy that refused to quit. (August 1945)

BTW: I think the Russkies, godless commies still, would try that shit on the IslamoScum AL-Q first. Given what's be done to them recently,
It may be sooner rather than later.

Posted by: djc at September 7, 2004 at 07:29 PM

Einstein may not have been such a poor student but Churchill was, and, as I recall, he turned out to be a tolerably good world leader.

No, tcg, this doesn't commit me to the view that Bush resembles Churchill in every respect.

Posted by: rexie at September 7, 2004 at 07:32 PM

Makes you wonder who Ted Rall is talking to. Whos sustaining his delusions, which extend about a light-year beyond the median range of Bush hatred?

I'd say Pauline Kael, but I'm pretty sure she's dead. But heck, Ted's never seemed all that same to me.

(Notice how I'm commenting on the actual post and avoiding feedingt a certain troll, who shall remain nameless?)

Posted by: Sean M. at September 7, 2004 at 07:33 PM

david- I wasn't trying to extract an apology, I'm sorry if I came across in that way. It's a common pop-culture error to confuse that equation with the Theory. (Government schools... Whatcha gonna do?) That was just about all I had to contribute to the conversation. No slight intended.

I will say that this thread fascinates me. Arguing over who's smart and who's dumb. Sounds like the chatter at my kids' kindergarten playground.

Cheers!!!

Posted by: nofixedabode at September 7, 2004 at 07:42 PM

Sean, do mean the little boy thinking he's slapping us silly with his gigantic cyber-schlong?

Heh.

Posted by: Spiny Norman at September 7, 2004 at 07:46 PM

Oh, and as for Rall's "terror whores," well, they oughta clam up about politics already...unless a few of them feel like complaining about Bush using 9/11 in a campaign ad or something. That's all well and good, you know?

Posted by: Sean M. at September 7, 2004 at 07:48 PM

Jeebus, did this thread get f'ng nasty or what?!

If Dubya's so stoopit, makes you wonder just how bad his enemies will REALLY feel come the morning of 3 Nov 04, huh?

What a lovely four years it'll be, with Hillary waiting for us at the end like some wicked witch in the forest... quick! Somebody hand her a box of Twinkies and a few Big Macs!

Posted by: geezer at September 7, 2004 at 07:49 PM

Pauline Kael is indeed one of the departed.

She was attributed with the quote: "I can't believe that Nixon won! Nobody I know voted for him" (nyc film critic) after Nixon's 49 state victory in 1972.

I'm sure she's not voting for W this year nor is anyone else she knew.

Posted by: djc at September 7, 2004 at 07:50 PM

Whoever could you be talking about, Norman?

And shouldn't you be out looking for Dinnesdale?

Posted by: Sean M. at September 7, 2004 at 07:51 PM

I dunno, djc. Are you sure she's not buried in Chicago?

Posted by: Sean M. at September 7, 2004 at 07:53 PM

Oh, and "same" in my original comment should've been "sane." Makes a lot more sense that way.

Posted by: Sean M. at September 7, 2004 at 07:55 PM

What is with Rall's bizarre obsession with the 9/11 widows, anyway? He is one sick puppy.

Or his vile, cynical attacks on the dead (Pat Tillman, Ronald Reagan)?

Being Ted Rall.

Posted by: Spiny Norman at September 7, 2004 at 07:59 PM

djc: don't be too sure about old Pauline just yet -- she just might be one of the many "undecideds" in Chicago, or St Louis, or some Indian reservation in S. Dakota, or...

Posted by: geezer at September 7, 2004 at 08:01 PM

If Kerry is so much more clever than Bush I would expect it to be obvious in the debates

Posted by: rexie at September 7, 2004 at 08:02 PM

If Kerry is so much more clever than Bush I would expect it to be obvious in the debates

Posted by: rexie at September 7, 2004 at 08:05 PM

Sean M,

I'm pretty sure that Karl Rove has written off Illinois and/or New York this year anyway. The Dems's GOTDV campaigns in the big cities always make those states hard to win for Republicans.

Now if she's buried in Ohio...

Posted by: djc at September 7, 2004 at 08:08 PM

Kerry's already been dumbing down his own expectations of going against Dubya in the debates. How quickly the "stoopit" are exalted...

Guess his practice with combat reports and medal citations is finally coming in handy.

Posted by: geezer at September 7, 2004 at 08:10 PM

Hi Quentin, my remarks about George Bush were motivated by the comment in the intro. So it wasn't irrelevant.
The intro appeared to imply that questions about Bush's intelligence were limited to some minority groups - I dont think that is the case. It is more widespread than that.
I stated my opinion. I dont think he is very smart.
In any case I dont think this need be an insurmountable problem to his Presidency. Other qualities like decisiveness, leadership, listening to good advice and hard work are important too. The smart stuff can be left to the underlings. In the UK Gordon Brown is said to be smarter than Tony Blair but Blair clearly runs the show.
Sho, nowhere did I say I was a Kerry supporter. By raising questions about Bush it doesnt follow I am a Kerry supporter. Kerry seems wooden and uninspiring to me so I am not convinced by him either. He might be able to sweet talk the Euros a bit better - other than that I cant see much of a difference.
djc - I think the US has no choice but to be patient now. I think the problems there now are because they didnt get in there in the first three months and go hard. They needed a ground force of minimum 300,000, they needed to totally control and defuse the vast ammo dumps that one of the worlds biggest conventional armies had left behind and maybe they needed to keep the Iraqi army under lock and key for a while. They also should have listened to the British advice more - with their experience of over 30 years with the IRA they know a thing or two about these things. Anyway its easy to say now but former General Zinni has said some of the same thing on what should have been done.

Posted by: the common good at September 7, 2004 at 08:39 PM

Guys, please, I'm TCG's psychiatrist. He's got a massive inferiority complex, and so far the only therapy that works is for him to project his insecurities onto the president. Please don't hassle him, it's not his fault that he's not very smart.

Posted by: Sortelli at September 7, 2004 at 09:06 PM

Something totally irrelevant, but people should stop bringing up the "Einstein did poorly in school" idea... it's not true. He did very well in school, especially in math. I've seen his report cards... the American Museum of Natural History in NYC had an Einstein exhibit last year, filled with all sorts of personal effects. He got top marks in school - not uniformly, of course, but no teacher at school called him dumb.

Back to the GWB stuff: I do wonder why people think Bush is stupid. Because he's Christian? Because he has a southern accent? Because he was an alcoholic? Because he lived in Texas? Jeez, that covers a lot of people. And no matter how well you're connected, Harvard Business School doesn't let idiots in and the Air National Guard doesn't let incompetents fly very expensive jets (maybe one can claim the boozing =after= he left those outfits brought his IQ down... it's possible). He may not be a genius, but he obviously is of at least average intelligence.

Posted by: meep at September 7, 2004 at 09:20 PM

nofixedabode:

Don't worry, it wasn't like that at all. I simply made a mistake, so I felt obligated to apologize for said mistake.

Now if tcg's parents would come on here and do the same...

Posted by: david at September 7, 2004 at 09:20 PM

Yeh guys Sortelli is right. I have evaded every argument so far.
Meep are you satisfied that average intelligence is enough to be President? I'd be happier with the adjectives "above" or "very". I think Rumsfeld and Powell for instance are very smart guys although Donald may have fallen victim to over confidence at times.
But I doubt the President is above average due to his record of innumerable public gaffes. Thats my opinion.

Posted by: the common good at September 7, 2004 at 09:28 PM

The attitude of families of the dead is almost the opposite of what Rall is portraying. Of those who've been publicly speaking out, they've been almost entirely against the war on terror.

I just hope it's because those who support the war on terror are less vocal.

Posted by: Andjam http://www.blogsforbush.com/images/rnc/erika.jpg at September 7, 2004 at 09:37 PM

Thats my opinion.

That's ok. The fact that, after displaying your own stupidity to the readers of this blog, you KEEP hammering away at this, makes me believe that your intelligence is far below average.

That's my opinion.

Posted by: Quentin George at September 7, 2004 at 09:48 PM

Hmmm, I've been thinking.

  • Self Righteous - check
  • Pompous - check
  • Armchair military strategist- check

Jack Strocchi, is that you?

Posted by: Quentin George at September 7, 2004 at 09:53 PM

Quentin my opinion seems to have generated a bit of heat round here so repeating "that's my opinion" to prevent a further tirade or two is the least I can do.
As for the rest of your message well, personal abuse seems to be the attitude of most around here to the dissenter, so gee, I really am going to concern myself with your estimate of my intellectual capabilities.
Did you actually have anything substantive to say or were you just patrolling the territory? Maybe you have said something worthwhile in my absence.
Anyway bye for now.

Posted by: the common good at September 7, 2004 at 10:17 PM

tcg, you'd didn't bother backing up any of your talking points, so what substantial piece of meat have you given me to refute?

Posted by: Quentin George at September 7, 2004 at 10:22 PM

Bit off topic, but ain't that Steyn something
else?

Sarcasm,wit and straight shooting writing talent.

Like to see a lot more of him in local print
and nice to see his work in the Australian from
time to time.

They should fuck Phatty Adams off and give his
space to Steyn.

Posted by: fred at September 7, 2004 at 10:48 PM

If Kerrys so smart how come he went to Vietnam.

Posted by: Le clerc at September 7, 2004 at 11:00 PM

TCG

Anyway the fact so many of you are annoyed and resort to personal abuse makes a neat point - you are all for free speech but only when people say what you want to hear. Otherwise launch a personal attack and ignore their argument. Divert the flow bro.

I have tried to have a sensible discussion with indymedia types, democratic underground types and student activist types that infest my uni, believe me, the "insults" you copped here are fariy floss compared to what I recieved, and I made far less inflammatory remarks, backed up with evidence, reason and a genuine attempt at being reasonable. Dont make some smart arse comment suggesting I want your pity, thats not my point. Yours was a childish "bushisstoopid so ner" remark I last heard in kindergarten. Your being a troll, and, unfortunately people here are reacting irrationally to it.

I would like to see some deliberate, considered discussion on this, if Andrea wouldn't mind NOT banning TCG that'd be a start, but YOU have to start making attempts at reasonable discussion.

I couldnt give a F*#K how smart Bush is or isn't. This is a pointless idiotic discussion. Tim was simply pointing out the stupidity of the people who like to point out the (purported) stupidity of Bush. His gaffes do not neccesarily represent lack of intelligence, and intelligence is not the absolute measure of how good a president a person will be. As was mentioned earlier, character, decisivness and other qualities help. Bush is a reformed alcaholic so this might have something to do with his gaffes. Remember einstein didnt speak till he was 5 or thereabouts. And no Im not comparing Bush to Einstein, only that speech and intelligence are not locked together at the hip.

In my opinion, both Howard and Bush will be better leaders in the current world climate. I disagree with both on several issues. Security is one that I agree with both thouroughly.
Cheers
RhikoR

Posted by: RhikoR at September 7, 2004 at 11:04 PM

The people who I find really dumb are the dimwits who have been carping about Bush's 'stupidity' for years. Don't they realize this was old before Bush became president?

Please find something else to defame Bush with. I've heard/read all the reasons about why Bush is supposed to be stupid. It's rather boring to see the same stuff just rehashed.

Don't you have anything new? Or, is this new to *you*? (If so, have you been living in a cave somewhere for the past few years?)

BushStupid, BushHitler, BushEvil, BushVeryBadMan .. Yawn.

Posted by: Chris Josephson at September 7, 2004 at 11:07 PM

"Meep are you satisfied that average intelligence is enough to be President? I'd be happier with the adjectives "above" or "very". "

Don't move the goal posts. Meep didn't say he was satisfied with a President of average intelligence. He was only refuting your contention that Bush is of below average intelligence. Since you didn't defend your contention, I suggest you retract your initial statment.

Posted by: Dan at September 7, 2004 at 11:10 PM

Bush isn't dumb. His 'Bush-isms' are just him and Karl Rove making jokes, that's all.
'Hey George - how's this one. Our enemies never stop looking at ways to hurt our country, and... punchline...neither do we.'
'Oh boy, we might be pushing it a bit this time Karl.'
I'm being serious, BTW. I honestly think that as the curtain draws, they all have a big old laugh at all of us. Republicans, Democrats, it doesn't matter.
I mean, nobody really cares anymore about Bush's stupidity. It's just fodder for hacks like Leno and Letterman now.
Can't wait to be insulted, BTW. The venom dripping off all your fangs is sometimes frightening.
Cue - 'dry your eyes princess' type response. you guys are quite predicatble. OR
correcting my Bushism quote as if it makes any difference.

Posted by: Jack at September 8, 2004 at 12:36 AM

No, wait....
I made a spelling mistake, on predictable. So that will be the main point of attack.
Can't wait!!!!

Posted by: Jack at September 8, 2004 at 12:37 AM

President Bush is not stupid, he is brilliant!

Afterall, he ignored Ted Rall, Paul Krugman and their ignorant, fascist-supporting minions.

If Bush=Hitler why is Michael Moore still alive, making millions off the 3000 lives who died on 9/11?

Posted by: syn at September 8, 2004 at 12:46 AM

Ted Rall is a piece of work. He insults dead people because they can't talk back. He smears their survivors because it's easy to kick people when they're down. He vilifies Bush because the Prez has a black and white perspective on what's good and evil, very much like a Rall cartoon, only completely inversed.

I'll take Rall inversed, thank you. Bush is definitely the better scribbler and scrabbler and just the editorialist the world needs just now.

Posted by: charlotte at September 8, 2004 at 12:50 AM

Y'know, I really hate all these other Jacks coming in and messing up the place...

CG, your ignorance is frightening in light of your position on Bush's intelligence. You spout unsupported ad hominems and then cry foul when asked to provide verification. You become agitated when asked to proffer credentials that would prove you competent to judge based solely on your unsupported word.

In short, you give strong evidence of being little more than the most common of trolls that infest the internet. You have no actual argument. You have no desire toengage in actual debate. You hide bend a grandiose screen name. I think you would aspire to being Strocchi.

Sad.

Posted by: jack at September 8, 2004 at 01:10 AM

TCG--POTUS is not a good off the handle speaker, I'll give you that. I am not an educator or a shrink, so I can't give you a lot of reasons why this is so. Its a major hindrance to be certain.

With respect to communication ability--extemporaneous, that is-- Neither in many ways is JFK, which is something that not many realize. he stammers a lot, can be very vague and as often as not, does not answer the question.

I am a reporter for a paper in NYC and i have covered both men and--obviously--had a good amount of interaction with their staffs. Moreover, I have had a number of conversations with people who have had extensive dealings with the both of them.

In private, people tell me Kerry is a bright man, who is well-intentioned, complex, loves his country and is deeply threatened and troubled by its move away from the 1970s liberalism of his political youth.

In private, people who have dealt with GWB say he is very shrewd, is smart and can boil an issue down to its constituent parts quickly. They tell me he's not all that conservative and not really concerned about other peoples impressions of him.

that last bit is very unusual. Mosy politicians care very much much about being cared about.

I will convince you of nothing and I have no desire to crap upon you or your beliefs. I simply seek to tell you that in my job, the people that i deal with--many of whom are not republican, let alone conservative--who have had dealings with Bush do not beleive he is the facile retard you make him out to be.

Posted by: rod at September 8, 2004 at 02:49 AM

Hey Jack, at least Bush isn't dumb enough to stage a rally immediately after Kerry's campaign speech, looking a little drunk and sounding a whole lot deranged. And I'm fairly certain that Bush would have stated the correct number of games the Red Sox were trailing the Yankees, you know, had he decided to use it in a speech to make a point that the Sox had gained ground when, in fact, they hadn't.

Posted by: Brent at September 8, 2004 at 02:55 AM

Quiz-

Which American president voiced his opposition to "drive-by pregnancies"?

Which presidential candidate wrote to the Washington Post to inform them that their photo of the Earth was "upside-down"?

Which presidential candidate said, "I voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it"?

Malaprops and silly mistakes happen all of the time to smart people. For every Bush gaffe you supply, I'll give you a gem from the "brilliant" Al Gore. Wanna play?

(Answers - Clinton, Gore, Kerry)

Posted by: Dave S. at September 8, 2004 at 02:56 AM

President Harry Truman, the one that ordered the dropping of the Atomic bomb on Japan - thus ending the war, was at one time a...... Hat salesman.

He contended that in any town or city with a population of 10,000 residents that there was at least one man capable of being President.

He also said that the presidency itself empowers a person beyond their past limits to unexpected reserves and perspectives

Harry Truman, one damn fine president, and yet not a genius either.

Posted by: Joe Bagadonuts at September 8, 2004 at 03:12 AM

"Who's sustaining [Ted Rall's] delusions, which extend about a light-year beyond the median range of Bush hatred?"

Rall's long-lost daddy.

Posted by: Jim Treacher at September 8, 2004 at 03:18 AM

I see that TCG has disappeared, still without tabling his superior educational credentials. I expect at the very least a PhD, as well as his Harvard MBA and fighter pilot's licence.

Posted by: mr maggoo at September 8, 2004 at 07:22 AM

Of course he's gone. And no, he will not answer any of your questions. That's not his intent. He is only baiting you! He got what he wanted and left. Consider what tactics you would use if you wanted to bait some people at DU, for instance. He is nothing more than an insecure little brat from the left. And no, the F102 is a single-seat strike aircraft. They made 111 dual seat trainers out of the 1,000,or so, total production, none of which made it to 'BAMA! Or the regular ANG's.

Posted by: YoJimbo at September 8, 2004 at 09:26 AM

Should have read;"or to any of the other ANG's." Sorry.

Posted by: YoJimbo at September 8, 2004 at 09:30 AM

Why are people so obsessed with W's IQ?. That's exactly what it is, an obsession. Who cares? Sure, the guy is a clumsy speaker, but dumb? Really?

W and my cousin went to a very competitive prep school in Houston, and W was in the top tier of his class. He clearly didn't apply himself at Yale and pulled C's. Big deal.

Forget about thirty-year-old rumors and ponder this: W recently appeared at the Crawford ranch, told reporters that Kerry should be proud of his service, and called for an end to all 527 groups. (Nine of the ten biggest 527's are pro-Kerry, and W's campaign has sued to stop them all.) He acts like a gentleman, and comes across as utterly sincere. This is ... dumb?

Why do W supporters get suckered into silly spitting contests about Yale/F-102's/Harvard/e=mc^2/etc.? That really is dumb. Look at what W does, and forget about what self-important, pseudo-intellectual snotheads say about him. Who cares what Gary Trudeau, The Guardian, and the NYT Times think?

Posted by: Butch at September 8, 2004 at 09:47 AM

Butch,

Did W go to St. John's or Kinkaid in Houston?

Posted by: prepped out at September 8, 2004 at 10:23 AM

Remember Adlai Stevenson? He was supposed to be the most brilliant candidate the Democrats ever ran for President. After he died, scholars were anxious to see what was in his library. They were very disappointed when they found only one book, the latest edition of the Social Register.

Moral: perception of intelligence and actual intelligence are quite different.

Posted by: d at September 8, 2004 at 10:26 AM

W went to Kinkaid, back in the days when students could actually flunk out.

Posted by: Butch at September 8, 2004 at 10:28 AM

Exactly, d.

Why, our last prez was a Rhodes Scholar, among the world's smartest people, a Master of the Universe, brilliant beyond any conceivable possibility of comprehension, and we all saw how that turned out.

Posted by: Butch at September 8, 2004 at 10:32 AM

and we all saw how that turned out.

"We" is just us. The DNC and Old Media still think Clinton's presidency was marvelous.

Posted by: a matter of perception at September 8, 2004 at 11:01 AM

Sad but true, matter of perception.

When he was lying to the grand jury (and everyone else, for that matter), Clinton was brilliant, no doubt about it. The guy could talk the skin off a snake, but he was still a lying sack of shit. And what an example of morality for America's children!

I'll take W's tortured syntax - and supposedly low IQ - any old time.

Posted by: Butch at September 8, 2004 at 11:11 AM

Rod
well written - I will take on board what you said.
Actually sounded like it was from someone who might know as opposed to the ideological fanatics who seem to believe the President is a superhuman and can not make a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes - even dare I say it him - (oooh - did I say that) get over it. Even I make mistakes - I may be prepared to concede he is now of average intelligence after reading what Rod said. Although I dont think average is good enough for the job at hand.
Anyway this is an opinion forum and I stated what I thought - but it seems some of you get quite tetchy when a different opinion like mine appears. Seems to put a ripple into your back slapping tranquil pool. Well I am sorry about that - it's called free speech.
Free speech - me vs 20 people trying to shout me down - but I didnt back down - sorry to those who tried to bully me with personal abuse - it didnt work.

Posted by: the common good at September 8, 2004 at 11:15 AM

No one got banned from this site because of strong opinions expressed on this thread. No suppression of free speech here.

Speaking of abusive and personal: "George W Bush is not dumb - it's just that everyone else is smarter than him."

Throw a stink bomb over the fence and it may get lobbed back.

Posted by: Butch at September 8, 2004 at 11:27 AM

Speaking of free speech, Kerry threatened to sue TV stations if they broadcast SBVFT ads, tried to get the FEC to stop them, threatened the publisher of their book, threatened bookstores that sold the book, and who knows what else. Kerry seems very opposed to free speech. I think he is the only Presidential candidate who has ever used legal means to suppress statements of his opponents.

Posted by: d at September 8, 2004 at 11:42 AM

Even I make mistakes

Every time you touch the keyboard it is a mistake. I'm upping your medication.

Seriously, please stop with these delusions of being a hero. All you do is rush into rooms full of people who disagree with you and shout and them. This does not make you a matyr, and it doesn't make you any smarter.

Now, remember our affirmation routine. Each day when you wake up I want you to say "I will be less stupid" twenty times.

And then cancel your internet service.

Posted by: Sortelli at September 8, 2004 at 11:44 AM

In case everyone forgot the initial post that people objected to, here it is:

George W Bush is not dumb - it's just that everyone else is smarter than him.

Then our little friend tried to move the goal posts, then came the "You're crushing my dissent!" or the "It's just my opinion!" dodge.

See, this post is a troll, pure and simple. Do you seriously believe that Bush is dumber than the Downs syndrome kid that lives down the street?

No.

If you do believe this, I'd suggest you sleep in on the day in November.

You might get a nasty surprise.

Ah, what the hell, Sortelli said it better.

Posted by: Quentin George at September 8, 2004 at 11:49 AM

Common, my mother had a phrase for professional victims like you: "Oh you poor thing!" Said in an extremely sarcastic tones.

Hey, you hear that noise accompanying your whines about people "shouting" you down? (How? This isn't a big room full of people, it's a web page full of text.) It's the world's smallest violin, and it's playing just for you.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at September 8, 2004 at 11:50 AM

OK, TCG, I don't mean to pile on, but this has to be stated:

If you're going to log onto a blog and impugn anyone else's intelligence, you first need to learn how to write better. Sure, there is no logical connection between intelligence and writing ability, but the quality of one's writing makes a big difference in the way in which one is perceived. Take a writing class!

Posted by: Butch at September 8, 2004 at 12:05 PM

d you mentioned Kerry and the election campaign. Interesting point but sorry to tell you but this thread is apparently about me and my shortcomings . You need to go somewhere else to talk about the election.
Andrea thanks for sharing your recollections of your mother. However I am not a unwilling victim -I knew the level of unquestioning devotion I was dealing with when I posted here. I am a willing victim and its been interesting to see the pack mentality that operates here. Its salient that you are incapable of dealing with a different opinion, maybe because you have none that are truly your own. I am sorry about that.

Posted by: the common good at September 8, 2004 at 12:10 PM

TCG, stop painting yourself as a victim. You started this by your assertion that Bush was dumb and that you were brighter. You still haven't tabled your own qualifications or proved your point.

Posted by: mr magoo at September 8, 2004 at 12:22 PM

sorry to tell you but this thread is apparently about me and my shortcomings

Ah, you've noticed how we have cleverly derailed your argument about how dumb Bush is to one about how dumb YOU are.

And yet you keep letting us pwn you.

Now, you've reached the first stage of acceptance by admitting that you are, indeed, a willing victim. The next step is to take control of your addiction to victimhood, take responsibility for yourself, look yourself in the mirror and say "YES! I WILL NOT BE STUPID ANYMORE!"

You can DO it, Jack! You can shut your fucking mouth and stop typing pure idiocy. We're all cheering for you.

Once you have learned not to say anything stupid every time you speak, then, perhaps, we can move on to learning to speak without shoving your head up your ass. But let's not jump ahead, now.

Baby steps.

Posted by: Sortelli at September 8, 2004 at 12:24 PM

Thanks Sortelli for sticking to the subject - me.

Posted by: the common good at September 8, 2004 at 12:31 PM

Oh Sortelli - the F word - I thought you guys were the compassionate type of conservatives.

Posted by: the common good at September 8, 2004 at 12:32 PM

What the hell is compassion?

Posted by: aaron at September 8, 2004 at 12:37 PM

And some advice for you, TCG, absolutely free, and worth every penny you paid for it:

If you end up inserting your foot in your foot by your own actions (and it happens to everyone), accept your feat of intelligence and agility with grace and humor.

You won't look any less stupid, but everyone will know that you don't see yourself as the center of the universe. And that's important because you aren't placing yourself above others.

A little fact that the left has forgotten, I think.

Posted by: The Real JeffS at September 8, 2004 at 12:37 PM

Dunno if anybody pointed this out, being so dazzled by TCG's insight and all, but the F-102 was a single-seat plane...

Posted by: richard mcenroe at September 8, 2004 at 12:41 PM

I thought you guys were the compassionate type of conservatives.

Where'd you get that idea? I'm an angry big-L (classical) Liberal thanks.

George Bush on the other hand is a compassionate conservative. I'm sure he'll forgive you for being a dummy...

Posted by: Quentin George at September 8, 2004 at 01:21 PM

Lo, I detect that you dared differ from George W Bush, Quentin by dismissing his theme of compassionate conservatism.
Any diversion from the established line is a dangerous outburst of indivduality which must be quelled before all people are thinking for themselves.
All hands to the foredeck, there's a traitor in these here ranks.

Posted by: the common good at September 8, 2004 at 01:37 PM

TCG, your posts are so typical of lefties in 2004. First make a nasty, personal remark that cannot be substantiated. Then, when confronted, morph into victim mode. Then lash out.

By way of example: The Dems savage Bush for being a draft dodger. When confronted with his own military, er, problems, Kerry says, "Bring it on!" When Bush brings it on as requested, Edwards demands that Bush "Stop those ads." Bush says, yeah, lets stop those ads, all of them. Not exactly what the Dems had in mind.

Checkmate, Bush. Some dummy.

Posted by: Butch at September 8, 2004 at 01:44 PM

"I thought you guys were the compassionate type of conservatives."

Why do you assume that people who support Bush are all conservatives? I'm not, and I support Bush. I know others who would not describe themselves as conservative and they support Bush also.

Were you aware that many of the right wing of the Republican Party, people who are VERY conservative, don't like Bush that much? Bush is not considered a true conservative by them.

Posted by: Chris Josephson at September 8, 2004 at 01:50 PM

TCG: I don't know if you're an Australian, but if you are you probably remember a guy up in Queensland who copped pretty much the same press as GWB. His name was Joh Bjelke-Peterson, and the media and his opponents loved to portray him as slightly more intelligent than a wooden chicken but less so than a live one.

For a variety of reasons (mainly to do with a specific Asian language skill) I spent three periods with Joh and a large team negotiating extractive contracts between the State of Queensland and a number of the world's largest resources companies. In each case, the other side consisted of people who were 1. extremely tough negotiators, and 2. non-English speakers. The contracts were extraordinarily complex. No seat at the table was occupied by an idiot. Least of all Joh.

I'm not a Queenslander and spent a good deal of my time out of Australia during his most controversial years, so I had only a vague impression of the man (admittedly not a good one). If I'm honest, I'd have to admit I thought of him in pretty much the same way that people now think of Bush: dumb as a wooden chicken.

No view could have been further from the truth with regard to Joh. He was astute, smart and extremely clear in what he said. He took entire clauses and reinterpreted them in simple language (a tremendous feat of intelligence) to ensure he knew exactly what he was signing. He didn't stutter, he didn't come up with home-baked philosophical expressions, and he never once - not once - lost his way or said something that could be deemed offensive to the other side. He took command from day 1, and the reason Queenslanders did well out of some of those contracts (and they did very well) was that Joh led the negotiations.

I worked with Joh on three separate occasions (once overseas), and he was one of the most impressive individuals I've met. I didn't necessarily like him (we never socialised and we barely passed words outside of negotiations), but I admired his intelligence. I think I would have liked him if we did in fact socialise. He could be funny (and not in the way that some Australian businessmen were with foreigners - i.e., dumb, offensive and parochial), was quick, a good listener, and was direct and straight. I always had the sense that what you saw was what you got.

As Joh's days of Premier came to an end, he was mercilessly baited by journalists who never saw him roll up his sleeves and go to work. I never understood why he presented a persona in public so at odds with his private one. Perhaps he wasn't good at speaking in public. I really have no idea. But I think at heart he despised the media and gave them exactly what they wanted: a wooden chicken. I honestly don't think he cared what people thought; all that mattered was getting the best deal for Queenslanders.

Now, I have no idea what GWB is like. But I'm smart enough these days to understand that what you see in the papers may have very little to do with reality. But I have a suspicion that GWB didn't get to where he is by clucking. He may not speak in public so well, but that's actually not where the action is. The action usually takes place around tables with people who more often than not despise a fool. GWB must be doing something right, and in the absence of concrete proof I tend to think hes probably more like Joh than an idiot.

Posted by: Wooden Chicken at September 8, 2004 at 02:14 PM

"When Bush brings it on as requested, Edwards demands that Bush "Stop those ads."

Oh I see Butch - you are admitting that it was Bush behind those ads. Thats quite an admission - I thought the administration had denied this is the case.
As for me don't concern yourself too much. I read a newspaper review that said this site was notorious for its treatment of differing opinions. And I thought you couldn't believe anything you read in the newspapers - but they were right this time.

It was great - everything I thought it would be. The intro is misleading - people who thought the President was not very smart are in a minority. My experience tells me that if they are a minority, they are a substantial minority, not some fringe minority.
Anyway I am very happy with the reaction - Tim if we get up to 200 comments I will be in contact about commission which of course I will donate to preserving endangered amoeba on Easter Island.

Posted by: the common good at September 8, 2004 at 02:15 PM

Thanks Wooden Chicken - a friend of mine interviewed Sir Joh a number of times and he backs up what you said.

Posted by: the common good at September 8, 2004 at 02:17 PM

tcg, mate.

George W. Bush may be many things, but he is not dumb. I think most of the assertions that he is dumb stem from the fact that he is not very articulate. Too often, people assess someone's intellectual capacity by their ability to speak. In my experience, this leads to underrate otherwise quite smart people, and, alas, to overrate otherwise quite stupid people (and its amazing how much of the "luvvie" set actually fall into that latter category).

Bush may not have had the best grades in Uni, but so what? I say that Bush is a "late bloomer". I've known many "late bloomers" in my time. These are people who may not have done too well in high school and/or uni, but they shine brightly in later life, after they learn a bit of wisdom and maturity. They may not have "book-smarts", but they have other qualities like (in the case of Bush) good moral judgement and the capacity for hard work which allow them to excel (although I think that Bush also, in fact, has good "book-smarts" - at least nowadays).

Since September 11, Bush has applied himself with admirable purpose to combatting the great danger of our time. He (unlike many of his supposedly smarter opponents) understands the nature of the enemy, and what it will take to defeat them. Bush, Like Abraham Lincoln before him, has recognised that (and here I paraphrase): the dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate for stormy present...we must think anew and act anew.

Oh yeah, I invoke the memory of Lincoln quite consciously. In his day, Lincoln was regarded by his critics as an imbecile and a baboon for pursuing war in the manner he did.

Finally, I make my obervations about confusing intelligence with the ability to speak from experience. I have two first class degrees, one in international relations and the other in Law, both from pretty good universities. However, I find that people underrate me because I don't speak all that well. However, when it comes to expressing my arguments by the written word, I end up handing my opponent's ass to him/her.

Kinda like I just did with you :)

Posted by: EJ at September 8, 2004 at 02:35 PM

Do I admit "that it was Bush behind those ads"? How the hell should I know? This I do know: the Swift Boat Vets loathe John Kerry, for the way in which he slandered them in 1971. Bush denies collusion with SBVFT. Can you prove otherwise?

Do you really feel you're being mistreated here? I think you'd command a lot more respect if you'd make a plausible attempt to back up your initial assertion, that "George W Bush is not dumb - it's just that everyone else is smarter than him."

How about it, TCG? Is W dumber than, say, yourself? Come on, prove your point or retract it.

Posted by: Butch at September 8, 2004 at 02:43 PM

Wow...tcg is the gift that just keeps on giving.

Posted by: Quentin George at September 8, 2004 at 02:53 PM

tcg

"I read a newspaper review that said this site was notorious for its treatment of differing opinions."

What newspaper?

So you admit you only come hear to test if that 'review' true. In that case you should have had a valid on topic counter argument. Instead right from the start you only had snide condescending remarks. Your test is only proves that people aren't tolerant fools.

Posted by: Gary at September 8, 2004 at 02:56 PM

Your test only proves that people don't tolerant fools.

Posted by: Gary at September 8, 2004 at 02:58 PM

way back, The Common Good said the USA can learn a few lessons from the Brits and their 30 years of dealing with the IRA.

Well what about the way the Germans dealth with Baader-Meinhof, the Italians with the Red Brigade, and Japanese with the Red Army Faction. They're all gone.

Now consider how the Brits dealt with the IRA - and they're still around. Same with the Spanish and ETA.

If you try to reason with them, they'll just continue doing what they do. If you just waste the fuckers, they're just dead. And if more of them rise up, then you just kill more of them.

Posted by: steve at September 8, 2004 at 02:59 PM

Again, would someone point out to me the portion of this site that gives trolls the right to...well..troll?

Posted by: Quentin George at September 8, 2004 at 03:21 PM

Dont worry about it Quentin - carry on regardless - we dont mind you at all.
As for the others who still are carrying on about my original statement, in amongst the reams of words I have modified my position. I am prepared to admit he may be of average intelligence. Cmon low Cs at uni - not the best - and add to that some years of dissolute youth - I think average is pretty fair.
Butch I already have stated my case. Now I am just enjoying the limelight.
Steve the IRA were an insurgency as well as terrorists. Add to that the numerous guerilla wars the British fought post war in their colonies. America's record against guerillas looks poor in comparison.
The Bader Meinhof, Red Brigade - etc - were more terrorists than insurgents. The US is fighting an insurgency in Iraq, not isolated terrorists.

Posted by: the common good at September 8, 2004 at 03:48 PM

Who is a CHICKEN HAWK then?

Posted by: jimbo at September 8, 2004 at 03:50 PM

thanks EJ - I have already addressed your points earlier.

Posted by: the common good at September 8, 2004 at 03:53 PM

I'm glad you're enjoying the "limelight," TCG. Sure as hell beats victimhood.

You still haven't made a case; you've only repeated a cheap, unsubstantiated slur.

Want to know why Bush will be re-elected on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November: the man is serious. Unlike the slanderers who label him as an idiot, a modern-day Hitler, a liar, and a draft dodger. Through all that, Bush hasn't complained, not even once. He just keeps doing his job. There is more dignity in that than in all the indignant protests and smears coming from a profoundly unserious Kerry, his feckless campoon, and his misguided fans.

Have a nice day!

Posted by: Butch at September 8, 2004 at 04:09 PM

Butch I have made a case - you just dont agree with me.
His gaffes have been reported for years and years now. Some here argue that they dont reflect anything. But they dont deny they happened.
I cant think of any other world leader who has made so many boos in public. I think it does reflect something. He did it again yesterday with his doctors speech where he made an unintended sexual reference about their relationship with patients. It's my right to think this reflects a lack of cognitive abilities and your right to think the opposite.

"feckless campoon" - love your work.

Oh and I have said this before as well - Kerry is not doing a lot for me either.

Posted by: the common good at September 8, 2004 at 04:23 PM

The common good says, "I remembered I did better than George's low C average at university".

Re Bush's not so stellar grades at Yale and Harvard Business school: obviously, the guy partied a bit and his ticket was already punched, so to speak. But, after college, he ran a couple of businesses, a couple of successful campaigns against incumbents, a really big state and now an entire country. Bush grew up from being a slacker to being the right President for the right time.

Re Kerry's grades at Yale and Boston Law: where are they? Everybody who insults Bush's grades must assume Kerry's were better, but how can they know? Kerry won't release his transcripts, for some reason. (Just as he won't release his complete military records, his divorce papers, his wive's tax returns, his 'Nam diaries, etc.) And, what has Kerry accomplished? He postured before cams and wrote a book smearing American GIs and US policy and went on to be a lackluster leftist/ elitist pol with no record he will claim or campaign on in the election of his life. In a way, Kerry is still a slacker.

Kerry needs to show us the paper and ink of just how genius he is so that some of us can understand why his sneering supporters constantly disparage Bush's grades. And so we say to John Forbes Kerry: BRING. THEM. ON.

Posted by: apples to apples at September 8, 2004 at 04:36 PM

Oh, yes, Bushisms. There is even a book by that title - a laff riot! What an idiot the Prez must be!

Thank God the grown-ups are in charge.

Posted by: Butch at September 8, 2004 at 05:09 PM

Oh, for the record, I forgot to include medical records in the long list of records Kerry won't release (see above). He's had cancer and recent surgeries, and he won't let us see his medical records.

Posted by: apples at September 8, 2004 at 05:12 PM

ALLRIGHT tcg!!! thats it, you absolute twit/troll whatever.
Please compare Kerry's grades at Yale with W's I dare you! I know that you will find them lacking.
I have read these blogs to learn and have found that most here are allot smarter than I. But it is ALLWAYS about what you do with what you have. I could tell you about where I started and where I am, but will not, for now.
You have guts, out of ignorance I presume. The very idea that one can assume forsite through education still amazes me. This is true with some of the other poster's here. I may rant about them at a later date. I think that your willingness to back ofF is somewhat admirable, however your true choice of words should have been "Thanks for the info and thoughts guys/gals I will study/examine your thoughts/info and get back to you ASAP"
on the other hand piss off!!

Posted by: pissed at September 8, 2004 at 05:39 PM

"Oh and I have said this before as well - Kerry is not doing a lot for me either."

Thanks Piste. Probably Johns grades are no good either.

As for you putting words in my mouth as to what I should and should not say, go and read my response to Rod.
He is one of the guys who actually knows what he is talking about as opposed to the frothing at the mouth fanatics who behave as if I had publicly insulted Stalin in 1938.

Posted by: the common good at September 8, 2004 at 05:52 PM

tcg, with respect, you have said that Bush's gaffes represent a lack of cognitive ability and is, at best, only of average intelligence (which won't cut it as President). Based on what I said earlier, I disagree: I think Bush is quite intelligent, in addition to having valuable leadership qualities. The fact that he speaks malapropisms causes a lot of people - who should know better, think they know better, but clearly don't know better - to misjudge him (or, to use a phrase, "misunderestimate" him).

Personally, I don't mind George Bush's malapropisms because his other strengths more than compensate for this foible (I wouldn't call it a weakness).

What I suggest is you not focus on grades and speech so much when assessing someone's intelligence, for those qualities only give an incomplete and (in many respects) an inaccurate picture. When you look past these things, Bush has displayed keen intelligence (even though you may disagree with the policies that result from the application of that intelligence).

Posted by: EJ at September 8, 2004 at 06:31 PM

Man, you guys seem to keep feeding a certain bridge-dwelling animal. If you quit giving it scraps, it'll go away.

Getting back to, you know, the actual post, I noticed that nobody seems to have commented on this:

My favourite protest sign at the anti-Bush rallies in New York: "I cannot believe that George W. Bush is so stupid, and I cannot believe that so many people dont see this."

Damn, but that's a witty and original, (not to mention) chantable slogan! You've convinced me, gentle hippie! I'm voting McGovern!

Posted by: Sean M. at September 8, 2004 at 07:25 PM

TCG, you have yet to make a case or address any of the overwhelming evidence that counters your assertion.

Posted by: aaron at September 8, 2004 at 08:15 PM

Okay, I've had it with the Common Grope. Once he started bragging about how all we do is talk about his precious self his trolling jumped the shark. Banned he is! And if he posts again under a different IP I will simply change each post to read: "I think George W. Bush is the greatest human being ever!"

Posted by: Andrea Harris at September 8, 2004 at 08:36 PM

No one gave me odds but [yoda] right I was banned he is [/yoda]

Posted by: Just Another Bloody Lawyer at September 8, 2004 at 10:28 PM

Nobody messes with Yoda.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at September 8, 2004 at 11:32 PM

And this is why we all love you, Andrea.

I had just gotten to that point where it had become evident that everything he said was simply going to be a longer and longer re-iteration of his first point coupled with any number of the leftist psychoses that pass for thought amongst his ilk.

You know the point? When you're simply staring and shaking your head....

I was actually about to ask...well...beg for your kind intercession.

Thank you.

Posted by: jack at September 9, 2004 at 03:06 AM