Tim Blair

And I wanted to leave him a comment in his Guestbook, but as he notes, it's closed "due to crumby spammers". Yeah right.

He's spot on!

Yeah, yeah.

Cold Dead Fingers and all that.

When will these twits realize you can't put the freedom horse back into the barn. Americans will do what they please when they please to do it.

And if you don't like it, you can f**k right off.

They do what they please... like getting picked off one at a time in Iraq.

Sorry MM but fewer Americans have died in Iraq than we lost in single plane crashes in the past or in one day in Vietnam. Our will to fight far exceeds what the media would have you believe. The SUV haters just display how bereft the environmental movement is of real issues that people care about.

I think he's right. Instead of driving my 18 mpg SUV, I have been driving my old 1963 14 mpg Chrysler Imperial. Now I don't feel guilty at all. Hell, I even sold the SUV to some kid who is probably just crusing around the mall right now. Too bad Barry never took the time to think about it before blindly hopping on the anti SUV band wagon. If he did, maybe he would mention low mileage vehicles instead.

RKD - "The SUV haters just display how bereft the environmental movement is of real issues that people care about."

I would say it says a hell of a lot more about the envirobunnies than anyone else if this is the best "crisis" that needs dealing with. As the largest consumer nation on earth there must be a million things to get worked up about.

Such as the tonnes of cotton plants which are sacrificed each year to make the undies and socks for their capitalist overlords. Or what about all those rubber plants being ripped from mother earth's sweet busom for the tyres for the SUV? Well? At least someone say " what about the children? ".

Yeah, I'm being absurd and am about as funny as the nit-wit but at least you know *I'm* not serious.

I normally agree with Tim, but on this SUV fetish, I dissent. Yes, farmers need four-wheel drives. Leafy-suburbs soccer m[o]ms and midlife-crisis-afflicted non-custodial dads don't. Not badly enough to justify the extra costs these land-yachts impose on other drivers. It's downright immoral to shift the inconvenience -- and the risk of death or serious injury, in case of a crash -- caused by your own bad driving, onto other people, just because they have less money than you have.

I propose a 1000% sales tax on these four-wheeled penises, but reduced by 1% for every fleck of genuine mud that can be detected upon the vehicle's hood or axle. Proceeds to be earmakred for the emergency wards at our hospitals.

Where are the anti Mini Van lobby? Or the anti big rig semi lobby? Where is the anti 747 or aerobus lobby? You know all of those get shittier MPG then a landrover. For that matter if your going strictly by noxious gasses given off per fuel consumed, horses don't meet California state emissions limits. Cows either.
What about you quit telling other people what to do instead? Then I promise not to put a boot up your personal emission control system.

Think of all the little children who would die if my SUV wasn't drinking all their oil.

Is Barry Crimmins Michael Morr's alter ego, stand in actor. voice over, or script writer, for I'm can hardly find any differences, if any.

Non-approved SUV uses:

Driving to a GREENPEACE rally.
Driving to a Democrat election rally.
Driving to your movie premier.
Driving to a Katie Coric interview.
Driving to a tanning booth or to meet your agent.
Driving to elective surgery like a boob job, hair transplant or liposuction.

End dependence on foreign oil by rendering leftist scum down for their excess lipids.

Well, Uncle Milk, that settles it. I'm trading in my Toyota for a Jeep Cherokee Sport. After all, I'm a woman, so I've got to assuage my penis-envy. (And -- newsflash -- bad driving is not caused by SUV ownership. A bad driver is just as deadly behind the wheel of an econobox, or something even smaller. A friend of mine died as a result of her Saturn sedan getting pasted by some sort of two-seater sports car whose driver ran a red light at about ninety miles an hour.)

Tell ya what, Uncle Milk - I'll let you control what I drive based on your perceptions of my needs if you let me control what you eat based on my perception of your needs.

In other words - what I drive is none of your fucking business. Is that clear enough?

Here is what I want. Luggage rack, pushbutton door handles (no crips will be getting in my car, bwahahaha!), it's square-shaped (I hate that sneaker look new Jeeps have). Betcha it gets 15 miles to the gallon! If enough people drive something like one of these babies, the oil deposits will be gone in no time! And the world will be saved from eeeville oil. Do it for the children.

Charming, RC Dean. You exemplify everything I've come to observe about the majority of SUV/ 4WD drivers (exempting those who actually need one because they go off-road) -- particularly their attention to the rights and safety of their fellow human beings.

To be fair (Andrea), others can be careless on the roads as well. For some reason, bright red Barinas seem to attract people who try to bluff you at roundabouts and to cut through as you're slowing while approaching.

Sorry, but if you choose to drive a car that increases the chance, in any given accident involving you and me -- REGARDLESS of which of us is the more careless driver -- that I'll be killed and you won't, then it is my fucking [sic] business. You want the right to drive several tons of metal around in public places, at speeds of 60 to 100 km per hour, in cases where I am (and my kids are) at your mercy if you can't see over your dashboard because it's 20 feet up in the air ... then it is my fucking business.

How the hell did supposed conservatives come to adopt this Sixties attitude in relation to cars?

In other words, RC Dean, my objection to SUVs/ 4WDs as status symbols on urban/ suburban roads has nothing to do with my overriding your judgments about your own needs, except to say that your need for safety does not override mine just because you want a land yacht. I'm talking self-defence, not paternalism. If you want to hand over your spare dollars at the bowser to the House of Saud, fine with me. If you want to back over my kids in the local carpark, though, don't you think I've got a legitimate right to have some say in the matter?!

ah, andrea, i was kinda hopin' you and i could cruise the beach in one of these...

I'm hoping that someone will post a list of approved SUV uses. I took mine onto North Carolina Beaches, Washington state ski areas and Arizona deserts before I traded it for the mini-van, so I guess I'm ok.
Of course that means that I couldn't:
Haul a dunk tank to a carnival I was working at an inner-city school
Go get plywood or an appliance at Lowes
Help a freind move
Throw a bunch of kids in the car for hockey practice.

I'm really interested, I'd hate to think that we were filling mass graves with the wrong SUV owners.

I couldn't give a fig if people drive them, shoot pigs from them, or terrorise school playgrounds with them - but I hate driving amongst these lumbering bricks. Moreover, in Oz, I hate paying 15% duty on my car, when these dirt-boxes only attract 5%.

As for the ELFes, well they might inspire me to get an RX-8 - those twin rotors are resonably thirsty. Long live the SUX-6000!

Let's face it. We need strong laws against being stupid, coupled with extremely harsh penalties for violating such laws. Who will decide what is stupid and therefore who gets punished? Well, of course, sensible people like you and me. Absolutely no chance of those stupid people we disagree with getting their grubby paws on the controls and deciding that *we're* doing something stupid and should be punished, right? No chance at all. None, really. Unthinkable. Never happen. Nope.

The anti-SUV crap is so stupid. My 500 SEC gets about 18 mpg, and I drive it 900 miles a week. No one tells me "no blood for pimping" -- why is that?

The idea that a given product should be eliminated because some people may not use appropriately is still a left-wing idea, Milk. See the debate over the 2nd Amendment here in America.

And the original comment by the comedian (never heard of 'em) and backed by MM is valid only in the minds of those who hear the call, in the inner recesses of their minds, the call of "Oooooooiiiiiiiiiiillllllllll!!! It's all about the ooooooooooooooiiiiiiiiiiiillllllllll!"

I think we need to break down the issue into 2 questions:

1) Are there people driving 4WDs (aka SUVs) who probably should (in a moral, not legal, sense) drive normal cars instead?

Yes. (Increased average fatality rates, worse average fuel efficiency etc.)

2) Should the government intervene to restrict access to 4WDs to people who "legitimately" need them?

Probably not.

Where is the anti-diesel-fueled-volvo club? Or the anti-1950's-piece-of-shit-ford-truck club? Both of those give of worse emmisions than a shiny new Touareg.

Uncle Milk:

Number 1: You are a snob. Beware of this unfortunate characteristic. ("Leafy-suburbs soccer m[o]ms," "four-wheeled penises")

Number 2: If you are so concerned with your personal safety vis-a-vis SUVs, then fer chrissakes get an SUV. Those middle-class things will save your life.

(Full disclosure: I live in Manhattan and drive a GMC Yukon -- but never off-road. Next up: a Hummer H2, if I can find a garage that won't scracth the damn thing to death trying to park it. Bwa-ha-ha-ha!.)

Number 3: Don't be so quick to desire to manage other people's lives. It will drive you crazy.

Uncle Milk -

Wrong argument - rethink quick. SUV's got popular because the US government came up with a stupid policy for gas consumption which mandated a fuel economy level. This resulted in the end of the large sedan or station wagon. Using the exemption for trucks that existed in the original legislation, SUV's began to take hold as a means toget a larger vehicle that could hold the things people traditionally used a big car for. So if you have a real problem it should be with a government policy that was created to solve a problem that no longer exists. Gasoline in the US is cheaper on an inflation rated basis than it was 30 years ago. The need for this policy creates the problem. SUV drivers want the room - and it is one of the only ways to get it.

No, uncle milk is right, without SUVs the roads would be safer.

If you want to back over my kids in the local carpark, though, don't you think I've got a legitimate right to have some say in the matter?!

Your "legitimate say" in keeping your kids out of harm's way is by keeping an eye on them, instead of complaining about the size of vehicles on the road. I seriously doubt there'd be much of a difference if your kids' heads were squashed by a Celica instead of an Expedition.

This whole anti-SUV crowd is driven (pardon the pun) by anti-Americanism.

Its a way to blame something on the yanks.

Monkeyboy -

No - you are also wrong - SUV's have lower mortality rates which far outway the very few multicar crashes in which their increased size killed an occupant in another car. The real killer is smaller lighter cars mandated by fuel efficiency nazis that are responsible for death estimates ranging into the several 10,000's, since the laws' introduction in the States. These cars do worse in every crash situation, except rollovers. In an accident - weather a single car, or with another car of varying sizes - mass matters. If you wish to drive an ultra fuel efficient vehicle (IE SMALL CAR) your odds of dying in a crash are higher - regardless of what you hit. If you drive a smaller car because you are worried about fuel efficiency and are worshipping the "god of not using gas" and get wiped out in a crash, you reaped what your "religion" sowed. Let me say it again - in the US (I don't know about Australia) there is no reason to worry about fuel costs as an individual driver - the stuff is dirt cheap.

Well, the stuff averages about 92 cents (AUD) per litre here in Perth, Western Australia, and that's for the shitty grade 91 RON. If you want anything decent (i.e. 98 RON) be prepared to pay up to about 106 cents per litre.

JEM-
Concur, click the link.

Monkeyboy-
Sorry, I scrolled too fast and didn't notice the link. Absolutely love the photos! I can't imagine what the owners were thinking. Maybe that an SUV might come in handy right about now!

Uncle: Odd how you go on and on about "4WD", when what you're really complaining about is "heavy" - would a 2WD really-heavy-vehicle satisfy your paranoia about Other People Driving Cars That Could Hurt You?

JEM is completely correct about the real Death Machines being under-weight cars.

And, Andrea, what you REALLY need is one of these babies. They combine everything bastards hate in a vehicle: They're huge, they're fuel-hogs, and they're a Mercedes. Plus you can drive right over any hybrid car in one.

I couldn't resist.

CANYONERO

Can you name the car with four-wheel-drive?
Smells like a steak and seats thirty-five!
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Well, it goes real slow with the hammer down.
It's a country-fried truck endorsed by a clown.
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Twelve yards long and two lanes wide,
Sixty-five tons of American pride!
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Top of the line in utility sports!
Unexplained fires are a matter for the courts.
Canyonero! Canyonero!
She blinds everybody with her super-high beam.
She a squirrel-squishin', deer-smackin' drivin' machine!
Canyonero! Canyonero!

It's true that I drive a Honda, and even take the train sometimes, but rest assured that I find other ways to damage the environment.

Just who the hell are you to tell me what I can drive, or decide what I "need"? I could dictate what I think you "need," too, and you wouldn't like it one bit. My interest is in safety, and in being able to cart around equipment and merchandise for my business, but if I just like the color or shape of my SUV, that's a good enough reason to own it. I notice you're not paying for my car, I am. Mind your own goddamn business.

Oh, and by the way, a "penis car" is a Corvette, not a Honda CRV. Idiot.

Guys: Volkswagen Thing??? Nooooo.... the horror, the horror...

I hate driving among "lumbering beasts" on the road too, but the lumbering beasts I hate driving among are semis (really large trucks, I don't know how you refer to them in Australia). Really, though, I think what I deserve is my very own road! Off the roads, all of youse!

My SUV has a lot of great features, but the one I like the most is how much it pisses some people off.

Some of esteemed responders and our ole buddy Barry have missed a very important point--who are they and who is Barry to tell us what we can and cannot drive.

Yo Barry, get some new material. I've heard variations of the same shit since I was a college student in the mid-70's.

As I've said before, if leftists leanings are so wonderful, why isn't the entire world one big commune. Sorry, it doesn't work and won't ever.

Driver 8 has provided a compelling case for why I must rush out today and buy a SUV.The endless satisfaction at the certainty one is `pissing' off leftoid retards each day is too much to resist. Are there any out there that will deliver 3 miles to the gallon - just to extract every dollars worth of the pleasure to be had.

I'm hanging out an extra large stocking at X-mas - in the shape of a SUV.

Oh boy. Never try to take the toys from the kids ... it only provokes an angry tantrum.

"A bad driver is just as deadly behind the wheel of an econobox ..." [Andrea] "when what you're really complaining about is "heavy" - would a 2WD really-heavy-vehicle satisfy your paranoia about Other People Driving Cars That Could Hurt You? ..." [Sigivald]

Yep, of course a smaller car could kill me. But they're more manouvrable and have better vision (4WDs/ SUVs are especially bad for rear visibiity -- I know someone who sold hers off when she realised she couldn't see kids/ short people behind her). And they don't seem to attract buyers with quite the same Screw-Everyone-Else attitude that "FUVs" do (as demonstrated, on cue, by a lot of the comments above).

"You are a snob. Beware of this unfortunate characteristic" [Kevin Smith]

Kevin, those generalisations are based on a lot of personal observation, mine and other people's. If you don't like people making those sorts of generalisations, why the hell are you reading Tim's bog?!

"If you are so concerned with your personal safety vis-a-vis SUVs, then fer chrissakes get an SUV." [Kevin Smith]

No, thanks, I have moral objections to putting other people's safety in danger just to increase my own. (See: "RULE, Golden". Google it, all of you.)

"Don't be so quick to desire to manage other people's lives. It will drive you crazy." [Kevin Smith]

I don't give a toss what any of you do in your bedrooms, or indeed inside your cars when they're parked or on private land. But once you drive them onto public roads, it becomes my business that, for example, if you and I collide, there's a greater than average chance that your car will end up on top of mine and crushing it.

"See the debate over the 2nd Amendment here in America." [Jerry]

Slight difference: gun ownership is actually in the Constitution. "[You] the People" got to vote on whether you thought the risks of being shot by the occasional Martin Bryant outweigh the risks of being mugged, burgled or mauled by a cougar. Doesn't mean every other extra-dangerous toy becomes a constitutional right by analogy. (Hey, I'm anti-gun-control, believe it or not -- though I'd reconsider if the gunners decided it was "none of [my] fucking business" if they saw fit to try target practice on the nation's roads.)

"I notice you're not paying for my car, I am. Mind your own goddamn business." [Barbara S]

Try this: "I notice you're not paying for the ingredients for the bomb recipe I downloaded from the Internet, I am." Or "I notice you're not paying for the Rottweiler I'm walking round the park, I am." Still none of your "goddam business"?

JEM, I stand corrected and agree with you. Stupid gov't regulations don't help.

If you chose your SUV/4WD because you need to haul stuff around or go off-road and because a station wagon or a Baptist-Van was exy-er or worse fuel economy or not as safe, then peace, I got no quarrel with you.

The rest of you ... Hey, I think I might attach some steel spikes to my side doors, Ben Hur chariot style, to reduce the risk of someone side-swiping me and damaging my paint. Bad luck for the rest of you.

Sorry, meant "reading Tim's BLOG". 99% of it is great.

Look, I too get sick of leftist whinging about harp seals, but doesn't mean I want to actually go and club them.

Driver8,

Did you pay extra for that feature, or does it come standard? :)

Geez, Unca Milkie, can't stand being disagreed with? If you can't take it, etc.

There is no excuse for not driving and owning a Land Rover product, preferably a Defender.

'There is no excuse for not driving and owning a Land Rover product, preferably a Defender.'

There is no excuse for not owning two Land Rover products, one to drive when the other has broken down.

No, thanks, I have moral objections to putting other people's safety in danger just to increase my own.

You must be one hell of a lousy driver then.

But once you drive them onto public roads, it becomes my business that, for example, if you and I collide, there's a greater than average chance that your car will end up on top of mine and crushing it.

It's called "risk". If you choose to maximize your risk by buying a small car, then that's really something you need to deal with on your own instead of trying to drag everybody down to your level.

Hey, I think I might attach some steel spikes to my side doors, Ben Hur chariot style, to reduce the risk of someone side-swiping me and damaging my paint. Bad luck for the rest of you.

Probably would still be more bad luck for you, if you don't improve your driving. Those spikes aren't going to help you when you drive right into the front end of a Suburban.

james, here's a land rover product for you.

Uncle Milk-toast:

1. SUV vs. small car: very very dangerous
2. Small car vs. small car: very dangerous
3. SUV vs. SUV: Not as dangerous as 1 or 2 above.

Conclusion: Get over your adolescent moralizing and get an SUV.

Ha! Evil Amerikkka, with your selfish SUVs!!! In China, we all ride bicycles -- efficient, full of exercise, and only a three hour commute!!! Though I admit, those with mountain bikes are at an advantage when colliding with hybrids -- is evil capitalist plot...must ban mountain bikes!!!!