November 17, 2004


Turns out that America isn't Jesusland after all:

This presidential election has been described by many as one in which morality mattered most to voters. But that perception may be driven at least partially by how pollsters asked voters about their priority issues.

Whether voters named "moral values" their key issue partly depended on whether that subject was included in a list of choices provided by pollsters, according to a Pew Research Center analysis released Thursday.

When "moral values" was included in poll questions, it was named more often than any other issue. But when voters were just asked to name the issue most important in their vote for president — without being given a list of answers — moral values trailed the war in Iraq and the economy, according to the Pew survey.

"The advantage of the open-ended question is it tells you what's at the top of mind for voters — what they're thinking," said Cliff Zukin, a veteran pollster and professor of public policy at Rutgers University. "Much too much has been made of the moral values answer."

Still, the US remains bitterly divided. Iowahawk aims to bring Americans together:

In the spirit of national reconciliation, I would like to offer my services as a navigator across these troubled waters. Having grown up on a confinement swine farm followed by 20 years incarceration in various left wing nut-hatches, I believe I have a unique perspective that will help America to build a daredevil rocket-cycle of understanding, shoot a rainbow arc of diversity over the Snake River Canyon of hate, and crash into the far cliffside of unity.

Are you confused and frightened by the folks on the other side? Get to know them! Here are a few of my favorite places where we can start the healing journey to American togetherness.

Posted by Tim Blair at November 17, 2004 04:05 PM

I may be wrong, but I am sure I read something about the fact that a smaller proportion of Protestants voted for Bush in 2004 than in 2000. Strangely he increase his Catholic vote also. This appeared at odds with the hype about the fundies getting out and voting.

Posted by: Razor at November 17, 2004 at 06:13 PM

I'm not sure that I WANT reconciliation. The left-wing nut jobs have been running amok for too long, and frankly, I'd like to shove them back under the rocks where they belong. I see no way to reconcile with a group that is forever forcing their twisted sense of what "normal" is down my throat. Rodney proved that we can't "all just get along"

Posted by: Bob I at November 17, 2004 at 06:49 PM

Moral values issue is about Kerry refusing to disclose his military records, and/or directly refuting the Swifties. He never reesponded to any of the charges, but did change his story about Cambodia. All refutation came through surrogates. He has trouble with the truth. Another definition of what "is", "is". We don't want or need another president who can't keep his stories straight.

Posted by: EddieP at November 17, 2004 at 07:05 PM


He increased his vote among Protestants and Catholics, but over 40% of Christians voted for John Kerry.

Go figure.

Posted by: Leigh at November 17, 2004 at 07:05 PM

I'd rather live in Jesusland than with people who think Kerry and Theresa are fit to be the leaders of America.

Posted by: dee at November 17, 2004 at 07:50 PM

over 40% of Christians voted for John Kerry

Doesn't surprise me. Just because people say they're Christian doesn't mean they are. Some non-Christians have very high positions (well paid, prestigious, perk ridden) in some Christian denominations. There's a man who's the leader of one denomination in Australia who refuses to confess at least one of that denomination's fundamental confessions. Even the fellow who leads the most conservative branch of that denomination here gets iffy about some parts of the text he's otherwise prepared to say comes from God and is, therefore, reliable. I won't put money in their plate for the time being.

A rotten apple at the top of the barrel spreads corruption much more effectively than one at the bottom.

Posted by: Janice at November 17, 2004 at 08:51 PM

And another thing.... I am going to stop "peeking in" on the Daily Kos. Those grumbling, ever-carping, harpies with their over-the-top gayness can all take flaming leap into the pit of hell. I only have to read their ludicrous rants a few moments and my blood boils. I need to organize a coalition to ensure their immediate expulsion from Jesusland. We of Jesusland must adopt an immigration policy (as well as a citizenship policy) that the Netherlands would envy. Jesusland motto: "We'll Pray for Your Soul, But We're Still Whuppin Your Ass!"

Posted by: Bob I at November 17, 2004 at 11:02 PM

I'm an atheist through and through. I'm also a Bush supporter. Go figure Lefties...

Posted by: murph at November 17, 2004 at 11:14 PM

The Jesusland phenomenon is just another pitiful excuse of the left's failure to offer a viable alternative to a strong and well-liked president. sKerry was a transparent liar, a moral reprobate, and phoney, and he is married to a certifiable nutcase! If it weren't for the rabid & unreasoned hatred of President Bush, sKerry would never have received as many votes as he did!

I am in agreement with BobI, I do not want to reconcile with people who will believe the kind of ridiculous, unfounded, & irrational conspiracy theories that abound on the left.

BTW, Tim, when I saw what happened in the Australian elections, all doubts about the President's re-election faded from my mind! Aussies are our soul-brothers and sisters!

Posted by: DagneyT at November 17, 2004 at 11:28 PM

I'm not a Christian, and I support Howard and Bush. They don't force me to follow their religious beliefs, and they fight the fanatics who want everyone else to convert or die.

I think these days the Left is far more intolerant than the Right.

Posted by: Evil Pundit at November 17, 2004 at 11:58 PM

I think these days the Left is far more intolerant than the Right.

exactly right.

Posted by: Mr. Bingley at November 18, 2004 at 12:06 AM

It's not that I'm against healing the rift. The true moderates or old school Democrats are quite reasonable people, and a pleasure to work with.

It's just that I think that the Blue State Leftoids prefer a festering wound, and throw a screaming tantrum at the slightest suggestion that they might be wrong.

Posted by: The Real JeffS at November 18, 2004 at 12:33 AM

The Real JeffS — If you had left a pile of brownskinned corpses behind you as high as the one the "progressive" left in the West generally and America in particular has stacked up behind it, from Cambodia to Rwanda to Darfur, you'd be screaming for someone else to take the blame, too...

Posted by: richard mcenroe at November 18, 2004 at 12:48 AM

I think these days the Left is far more intolerant than the Right.

Bingo! I get tired of folks beating me over the head about tolerance, who refuse to even listen to my side. Most don't even know what the definition of tolerance is, much less how to practice it. They only know how to preach it to others.

Posted by: Crusader at November 18, 2004 at 01:32 AM

Get to know them? I live in the moonbat capital, I already know them, thanks. Many are moderate and reasonable people - I'm happy to help heal the rift there. But the rest, who apparently are now the spokespeople for the Democratic party, I have absolutely no interest in reaching out to in any way. They are intolerant, bigoted, intellectual wannabees who can't reason their way out of a paper bag and I hope they all move to France or seceed from the union.

Posted by: Elisa at November 18, 2004 at 01:33 AM

crusader, what you are missing is that in your case it's just fun to beat you over the head; a 'reason' per se is never really needed.

Posted by: Mr. Bingley at November 18, 2004 at 01:37 AM

Crashing into the far cliffside of unity (or the "farside" of unity - apologies to Gary Larson) is generally how we do it in a democracy, given that we are imperfect monkey beings. It's what makes interesting times of our lives. Otherwise, we'd probably die of the boredom.

Posted by: Rebecca at November 18, 2004 at 01:41 AM

>I'm not sure that I WANT reconciliation.

Exactly. I identify with the picture of leftists saying : "If you all hadn't been so hateful, victory wouldn't be so sweet."
(the NOT SORRY pictures here are the best I have seen, especially the one with Kerry)

Posted by: jorgen at November 18, 2004 at 02:48 AM

crusader, what you are missing is that in your case it's just fun to beat you over the head; a 'reason' per se is never really needed.

I try to be cognizant of the fact that many mere mortals fail to grasp my rightness, but it still gets annoying at times. It’s not easy being me in a city of RINOs and loons……

Posted by: Crusader at November 18, 2004 at 03:41 AM

Helpful hint for any visitors to the U.S. or to Americans wanted to make a road trip. Be sure to use Iowahawk as your best planning guide. Genius.

Posted by: bc at November 18, 2004 at 04:11 AM

"wanted" should be "wanting". Sorry.

Posted by: bc at November 18, 2004 at 04:12 AM

For the latest excercise in liberal "tolerance" please go the He links cartoons by Oliphant, Doonesbury and Danziger on Condi Rice. Also, a UK Mirror story. "You met the Monkey, now meet his trainer" Get the drift! Where is the "civil right's" leadership? I know, I know! Just asking! First, she saught him everything he knows about foreign policy because he isjust too dumb. Now, she is merely some sockpuppet for his views. Pick one and stick to it for goodness sake! The Danziger cartoon is a redux on "Gone With The Wind".

Posted by: YoJimbo at November 18, 2004 at 04:26 AM

JesusLand was a Karl Rove trick to push Dems into the political wilderness.

Posted by: Andy Freeman at November 18, 2004 at 04:51 AM

Haven't had lunch yet. Iowahawk was great fun, but now I'm starving because of the food he mentioned. Red, blue .. who cares when you're hungry, as long as it's reasonably priced!!

As far as the whole Jesusland thing goes .. I agree with those who have said this is a lame excuse by the Left for why they lost. I'm a Christian and I did NOT hear any Evangelicals that I know voice support for Bush because he'd usher in some sort of Bible-based theocracy. Just like everyone else, the main issue was security. You know, THE WAR ON TERROR?

Check around the web. Look at the sites that were pro-Bush. Of all the posts, how many pertain to security / War On Terror vs. posts that pertain to creating a 'Jesusland' in the US?

I live near a fairly liberal city, in a fairly liberal state (Boston, MA.). Kerry is one of my senators. I grew up NEVER KNOWING anyone who was other than a Liberal Democrat. (Seriously, I didn't know anyone who was anything else until I went to college.) Most family members still identify themselves as Liberal Democrats, as do many friends. Some of them even supported Bush, and still consider themselves Liberal Democrats.
(The term Liberal doesn't = Lefty among the people I know. It's a shame that term has been hijacked.)

Most of the people I know are NOT the MM (Michael Moore) Nutty Lefties. A few HAVE gone over to the dark side and believe the crap MM and others have spewed. (Younger family members and some co-workers.) But I don't know anyone who needs to visit a psychiatrist, or is fleeing the US, because Bush won. I also don't know any Evangelicals who believe Bush is the best thing that's happened since the First Coming. Those who are pro-Life are not expecting any changes either.

Dr. Rice:

I am not a Rush fan. But, please visit his page (mentioned above). The links he provides to cartoons lampooning Dr. Rice HAVE to be seen. I guess it's OK for some in the US to poke fun at Dr. Rice and use race to do so.

I've come to the conclusion that people on the Left like people of color as long as those people of color 'keep their place'. As soon as someone like Powell (who has been trashed) or like Dr. Rice (being trashed now) come along they must remind them that it's only the LEFT that can elevate people of color. If a person of color attains power and is NOT associated with the Left, the Left shows how it really regards them.
(Essentially the same as Lefties regard Christians and Jews = targets for demonization.)

Posted by: Chris Josephson at November 18, 2004 at 06:00 AM

It is difficult from the Left to say too much against Powell, as he probably is the most popular politican in America.

But they did try to attack him as an inauthentic black man because of his conservative political views.

Posted by: Anthony at November 18, 2004 at 07:01 AM

Not much practicing religion here and I voted for Bush. Actually I don't even know any evangelicals. They don't seem to be hanging out in large crowds telling everyone else they are wrong. Haven't even seen a good evangelical troll harrassing the left blogs lately. I guess they must be full of moral values or something.

"Moral vales" have more to do with doing what is right and respecting others rather than having some direct corrolation to the church. I've met people from other religions who have no moral values and athiests with good moral values.

I think the left is confused because of what they read in the papers and hear on tv. Probably only 20% of them have no morals or ethical values but the rest sit back and let those 20% do all the talking and acting on their behalf. I think the right may be the same but they are smart enough to let the 70% do all the talking and acting on their behalf.

Just watch any of those news talk shows where both sides are represented (ok watch FOX) and the right more often has an intellegent decent looking person who is confident and respectable while the left position is represented by some cro-magnum guy with a lopsided skull and hair growing out of his ears who speaks with a forked tongue and lies through his teeth. Geesh, how can you concentrate on what he's saying when the whole time his mouth is moving you are trying to figure out what in the hell his parents must have looked liked. Damn, here I go again showing my lack of moral values and yet I went and voted for Bush....I guess I respect the rather odd looking guy but in a pity way.

Posted by: tej at November 18, 2004 at 07:30 AM

Don't want to get too fancy here, but remember C.S. Lewis old saw that he'd rather play poker with a scoundrel who believes a gentleman never cheats, than a moral philosopher who believes all things are relative.

Now, we aren't scoundrels, but we believe in SOMETHING, most of us, with enough depth to give our lives for it. "It" varies, but I have yet to find a true lefty with enough backbone to fight for anything longer than it takes to spit an epithet and run away.

Posted by: Crazy Chester at November 18, 2004 at 08:24 AM

An example of lefty intolerance: PETA (the folks against cruelty to animals) are campaigning for rodeos to be made illegal on grounds that they are cruel to bulls, horses, etc.
This, after threatening to boycott Abercrombie and Fitch for selling garments made from Australian wool (cruelty to sheep); and the banning of fox hunting in England. These people are ferocious in their blinkered vision of the world and must be opposed rlentlessly. No reconciliation!

Posted by: mr magoo at November 18, 2004 at 08:55 AM

Whenever I hear a Lefty talk of tolerance I think of an old quote I stole from somewhere: "That pimple on your cheek is quite unsightly. This huge goiter on my neck, on the other hand, is quite attractive."

Posted by: JorgXMcKie at November 18, 2004 at 09:46 AM

Well, according to the Autorantic Virtual Moonbat...

Christian values, indeed. What about dialogue and gay marriage for the hundreds of billions of transgressive rainforests who are drafted every single day by our high priest!? I reject oil and handguns. Down with war!!!! Since 2003, hundreds of aboriginal ferns have been turned away in Samarra!! What can we expect next!? Will my Canadian friends now be short-changed just because they're species?

Makes you stop and think, doesn't it?

Posted by: Sean Gleeson at November 18, 2004 at 09:50 AM

Mr. Magoo

These people are ferocious in their blinkered vision of the world and must be opposed relentlessly. No reconciliation!

Agreed, you can't reconcile with someone or group whose beliefs are oriented by what the beliefs of their opponents are.

If say, those in power and in the main-stream were for abandoning completely the use of Oil, we would be labeled by the professional-protesters as anti-Arab/Muslim, and of trying to commit an economic genocide. There is no arguing with them.

Lileks, in his Wednesday Bleat.

It is helpful to remember that if 9/11 had never happened, and we had never invaded Iraq, these people would be bringing the same level of ire and outrage to the presence of irradiated beef on school menus. They are the squeaky wheels shrieking for grease.


Posted by: Thomas at November 18, 2004 at 10:00 AM

I'm a fundamentalist Christian - not because I believe in God - just 'cause is pisses off the lefties so much.

I just assumed that's what people were doing when they identified 'moral issues' as their key issue. "Hehe, I said Moral Issues - Eddie Vedder's going to explode."

Posted by: Pig Head Sucker at November 18, 2004 at 10:41 AM

I had a suspicion that something like this would come out. BTW - if I may identify myself I am a conservative, evangelical, Christian, and a pastor to boot, who voted for Bush. But, I don't put my hope in politicians, and I've been thinking that evangelicals may be feeling a little too triumphalistic for their own good in the wake of this election.

Posted by: David Wayne at November 18, 2004 at 10:49 AM

I, too, be an "athiest", but must side with the Christians vs the Axis of Liberals+Radical Islamists. The Islamists should be getting their antennae reflexly raised, given who their friends now are revealed to be.

Or are they merely soothingly comforted by the Liberal ambience of depravity?

Posted by: Joe Peden at November 18, 2004 at 11:19 AM

Yeah, the Left sneers "Jesusland" when they lose - but when the outcome is still in doubt we get this sort of crapola:

'As the scripture teaches us, those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength, and they will soar on wings like eagles, and they will run and not grow weary, and they will walk and not grow faint,' Kerry said, whipping up cheers from the congregation.
'That's what we are going to do over these next two days and once we have done that job, for the next four years we are going to work out what we need to do to heal the wounds of this country, to be one America,' Kerry said. 'We are going to get this done, let's make it happen, let's walk in the footsteps of the Lord.'

This was a few days after his running mate said that under a Democrat president, the lame would walk. Forgive me for not conveniently overlooking it.

Posted by: Nightfly at November 20, 2004 at 07:48 AM