May 11, 2004

PEACE THROUGH EDUCATION

We now cross to the Al-Quds University Debating Society, where Junior Hamas is presenting the “I kill you!” case, while Fatah Youth argues “No, I kill you!”:

At least eight Palestinians were injured yesterday in the center of Nablus when a gunfight broke out between Hamas and Fatah activists.

The gunfight took place against the backdrop of elections to the student council of the Open Al-Quds University, based in the city's Rafadiyeh neighborhood.

Palestinian sources said it began as a brawl between Hamas activists, who were looking to set up a campaign booth on the university grounds, and Fatah youth, who wanted to stop them.

The brawl and shouting match soon turned into a knife fight, the sources said, adding a large group of Fatah activists then arrived on the scene and set fire to furniture and office equipment belonging to Hamas and Islamic Jihad opposition groups on campus. Shortly thereafter, the gunfight began.

Statehood. That’s what these folks need. That item via LGF. Meanwhile, in other Palestinian population explosion news:

A Palestinian teen who decided not to blow himself up in Jerusalem after all caused panic in a West Bank security office on when he went for help, officials said today.

Palestinian security officials said a youth appeared at their Ramallah office late last week and stripped off his jacket - revealing an explosives-filled vest with a detonation switch at his neck.

The youth, whose name was not released, told the officers he was recruited by the Islamic Jihad group in Jenin and was supposed to blow himself up in Jerusalem.

On the way, though, he had second thoughts. "I kept thinking of myself, of my family, and to be honest - I don't want to die," one of the officers quoted the youth as saying.

Posted by Tim Blair at May 11, 2004 03:26 PM
Comments

I kept thinking of myself, of my family, and to be honest - I don't want to die.

That's got to be the most refreshing thing I've read out of that region in a long, long time.

Posted by: Sean M. at May 11, 2004 at 03:36 PM

Yeah, there's hope yet.

Posted by: Sortelli at May 11, 2004 at 03:44 PM

Indeed. One young man doesn't listen to the martyr drivel.

And if Hamas and Fatah take each other out, that young man has a better shot at a future.

Posted by: The Real JeffS at May 11, 2004 at 03:48 PM

Lets hope this is a trend.

Posted by: IXLNXS at May 11, 2004 at 03:51 PM

Palestinian hermaphrodite terrorist thwarted. No, I'm not kidding. John Kerry's kind of bomber.

Posted by: CurrencyLad at May 11, 2004 at 03:52 PM

Currency Lad,

Could you please translate 'hermaphrodite' into French? Is that a male 'Le' or female 'La'?

Posted by: JDB at May 11, 2004 at 04:05 PM

JDB: It seems appropriate to turn to The Kinks for this answer: Le-La, la-la-la la Le-La.

Ergo, both.

Posted by: CurrencyLad at May 11, 2004 at 04:09 PM

Given how the Arabs like to "discuss" issues it's really no suprise that they would resort to knives and guns over a trivial Uni election. Let them go for it. At least when they are busy treating their "brothers" like clay targets others are left in peace, not pieces.

Posted by: JakeD at May 11, 2004 at 05:01 PM

Just a look how they rote learn the Koran would explain much

Posted by: Django at May 11, 2004 at 06:52 PM

I hope they name a street after the bomber who choosed to live.

Posted by: Papertiger at May 11, 2004 at 07:14 PM

Papertiger,
Don't count on it. He'll probably be murdered by week's end, though I hope it isn't so. Let's all hope he becomes a future PA leader.

Posted by: Sean M. at May 11, 2004 at 08:23 PM

C'mon JakeD thats a pretty piss-poor comment, were supposed to be supportive of the freedom being developed, not encouraging that sort of shite, whether or not you think its justified.

Posted by: RhikoR at May 11, 2004 at 09:44 PM

So what's the precise ideologico-theologico beef between Hamas and Fatah? I'd assume the first is Islamofascist while the other is Arafatist "Arab socialist nationalism" (ie, Ba'athism Lite). Anyone know more?

Posted by: Uncle Milk at May 11, 2004 at 09:59 PM

The practise of using children as attackers has drawn fire from relatives and Palestinian human rights groups.

It's 'drawn fire', has 'been critisised', is 'causing concern'. Good to see the practice of brainwashing children and turning them into living bombs is attracting the level of condemnation it deserves. Next we'll hear Kofi has become concerned, then we'll see some action.

Posted by: Amos at May 11, 2004 at 10:16 PM

sounds like a good old parliamentary brawl

Posted by: Mr. Bingley at May 11, 2004 at 10:45 PM

I find it interesting that nobody else commented on the most important issue outlined here. It was my opinion that once the Israeli’s succeeded in isolating the Palestinians, that they would begin to self-destruct. The security fence is not even complete, and it has already begun.

Soon the Palestinians will have to live with the monster that they created. Irony at it's best, or worst, depending on you point of view.

Posted by: Jim G. at May 11, 2004 at 11:27 PM

Uncle Milk:

I think Fatah is merely the pragmatic face of Palestinian agitprop. Because Arafat maintains the image of a semi-government leader, Fatah plays at politics within the international system for media and inter-Arab consumption.

Hamas, on the other hand, is the gloves-off branch of Palestinian resistance. In some ways the two bodies have got a 'good cop/bad cop' schtick going on, resembling the Sinn Fein/IRA janus. As with the latter example, there are tiffs between the two. Theologically, I think both have Ba'athist/clerical strands but my understanding is that neither envision a mulluhcracy - rather, a garden-variety socialist, Arabist, anti-Zionist state. (That is, another basket-case).

Fatah plays at politics and wages terrorism on the quiet; Hamas plays at terrorism and does politics on the quiet. Both use each other and, obviously, occasionally shoot each other.

Al Jazeera's latest B.S. on the relationship between the two groups is that members of both have been brought closer together by conflict.

Here's Al Jazeera's recent (22 April, 2004) description of the relationship between the groups:

With the collapse of the peace process, a new positive chemistry has replaced the chronic mistrust between the various Palestinian factions, mainly Hamas and Fatah.
"We have become more mature politically," says Nizar Ramadan, an Islamist journalist based in the West Bank town of Hebron.

If this is political maturity, then there's some little simian flying through the vine-clad jungles of southern Asia who is my beloved little nephew.


Posted by: CurrencyLad at May 11, 2004 at 11:30 PM

Sean M. said:

"Don't count on it. He'll probably be murdered by week's end, though I hope it isn't so. Let's all hope he becomes a future PA leader."

I am also wondering what his future holds. Since the suicide bombers, and their families, are held up as model citizens, what will they do to one who had a change of heart?

It's a small step. But, encouraging to know that not all the youth have been brainwashed to become weapons.

Posted by: Chris Josephson at May 11, 2004 at 11:45 PM

I don't have much sympathy for either Hamas or Fatah, but I do feel kind of sorry for a guy who brings a knife to a gun fight.

Posted by: Ernie G at May 11, 2004 at 11:57 PM

between Hamas and Fatah activists

Orwell would be so proud.

Posted by: R C Dean at May 12, 2004 at 12:01 AM

Well i for one an utterly deflated. All i have been told by my friends at Democratic Underground and Moveon is that the Israeli's are horrible murdereers and oppressors, but here we have a kid who walks up to security personell strapped with a bomb and he is not shot dead on the spot. He tried to surrender and was successful. I just don't know what to believe anymore. Does this mean that Israeli's aren't animals and i have been getting all my news from the wrong people?

Posted by: MATT at May 12, 2004 at 12:29 AM

Could we do something to encourage such behaviour? This is the type of "operation" that would be good to see occur more often. They get to die (which they seem to want) and yet no Isrealis get killed in the process.

I think that is called a "win-win".

Posted by: Andrew Ian Dodge at May 12, 2004 at 12:49 AM

I find it interesting that nobody else commented on the most important issue outlined here. It was my opinion that once the Israeli’s succeeded in isolating the Palestinians, that they would begin to self-destruct. The security fence is not even complete, and it has already begun.

Jim G., that was my first thought. It's yet another example of what happens when [cowboy] governments [/cowboy] stick to actions that are unpopular with the U.N. and their progressive suck-ups.

Posted by: Rebecca at May 12, 2004 at 01:08 AM

I totaly agree with Jim G. In my opinion, the vast latent potential for violence within the Palestinians will be unleashed once they can no longer get at the Jews. The real blood-letting will be triggered when Arafat dies ans the vareous factions tear at each other for the EU money. There are no legitimate civil institutions within Palestine, no single security apparatus, little legitimate economy and eveything is run by corrupt gunmen who hate each other.

Add to this an unemployed and unemployable population 60% of which are under 20, radicalised, indoctrinated to hate hate hate.. all the conditions are in place for an almost Pol-Potian bloodbath.

And here's MY prediction: once it's Arabs killing Arabs, NO ONE WILL CARE. No one, not the bleeding-heart left, not the ISM, not the U.N, certainly not the Arab thugocracies, no one. Once the Palestinians are no longer useful as weapons against the hated Jews and by extention, the hated AmeriKKKans, they'll be no more useful to the Left than the Sudanese and they'll be abandoned to the massicre.

Posted by: Amos at May 12, 2004 at 01:31 AM

Rather than seeing a 2-state solution as one state too many, see it as way too few. Give a state to each of the terrorist groups, and see how long it takes until they start attacking each other.

Posted by: Andjam at May 12, 2004 at 02:37 AM

Ahhh, a good news story for a change.

Posted by: Brian. at May 12, 2004 at 02:38 AM

As someone who used to be involved in student politics, I find nothing about this story surprising in the least.

Posted by: Dave at May 12, 2004 at 02:39 AM

In Gaza the Islamic University and the Fatah one are next to each other. When I was there they had a mass punch up about something. I think the Hamas students didn't want women students to stand around outside, or something like that. It was something involving women, anyway.

The Islamic University is funded by the Gulf States; the other one by the Palestinian Authority.

Posted by: Harry Hutton at May 12, 2004 at 03:08 AM

MATT --

Not IDF.

"Palestinian security officials said a youth appeared at their Ramallah office "

Considering your post, it looks like you can neither read nor write.

Posted by: Uncle Bill at May 12, 2004 at 04:19 AM

This is only happening because of Israeli oppression and intransigence. If it weren't for the Israelis the Palestinians would be settling their differences with reason, debate, and good will, the same way their brother Arabs settle their differences in...well...

Posted by: Alex Bensky at May 12, 2004 at 04:21 AM

"And here's MY prediction: once it's Arabs killing Arabs, NO ONE WILL CARE."

No, it will still be blamed on the Israelis, for constructing the fence.

Posted by: Mike S. at May 12, 2004 at 04:26 AM

CurrencyLad, there is an addon to what you said, and that is
hamas has been raiding fatah's membership for converts.
Not especially endearing them to Arafat.

Matt, don't go back and tell that to indy, they'll send out a hit squad.

Posted by: Mike H. at May 12, 2004 at 05:25 AM

"And here's MY prediction: once it's Arabs killing Arabs, NO ONE WILL CARE."

I hate to contradict ya Amos, but yes there will be plenty of parties that care. Organizations like the UN, the EU, the Arab League, etc. They will care so much that they will demand that the U.S. send in the U.S. Army to act as "peacekeepers".

They will care so much, they'll bring up Bosnia and Kosovo, and ask why the poor Palestinians don't deserve as much from the U.S. Of course, the UN, the EU, and the Arab League would gladly send their armed forces in but, you know, they're kind of busy right now and all, and after all, the U.S. military is so big and theirs is so small, etc., etc., etc.

And the worst part? If there's a Democrat sitting in the White House, the U.S. would, once again, play the chump. All Kofi would have to do is whisper "multilateral" in the ear of someone like a John Kerry to have 10,000 U.S. soldiers end up there.

Posted by: David Crawford at May 12, 2004 at 06:29 AM

Thank you Bill, i will put in the lame tag from now on!! as well as reading more closely

Posted by: MATT at May 12, 2004 at 07:00 AM