Tim Blair

Yet another ABC-ALP Doppleganmger is Alan Carpenter, former ABC journalist in Perth and now Minister for Education in the WA Labor government.

Good to hear that Saddam's goons "actually" killed people in the prison, while coalition contractors only... beat the occasional prisoner to death and secretively dumped the bodies?

Um.

Killer corn triple bill:

The Day After the Day After Tomorrow
The Texas Chainsaw Maizecre
Natural Corn Killers

(Yeah, well, you do better)

Were you "gravely concerned" about each equally, Michael? Maybe you can get a job at the UN.

I hear the kickbacks are great.

I am also shocked, shocked that you would describe the angry reaction to the torture photographs from InstaPundit, Sgt. Stryker and the rest of the warblogging community as being from people who were "unmoved by the mutilation of US contract workers".

Tim, why do you hate America so?

To be honest I would be more concerned if Australian contractors were torturing people, as I prefer not to subsidise such activity with my tax payments.

Michael,

I think the point is the contrast between the blindness of the opponents of the war to the atrocities committed by Sadaam, and the righteous wailing the same people produce when isolated examples are perpetrated by a tiny minority of coalition forces.

Sadaam made no secret of his bloodthirstyness, and he was courted and comforted by unprincipled leaders and morally confused journalists. Coalition forces are being pilloried because they hold themselves to higher standards.

Prediction: the perpetrators of the violence towards Iraqi POWs will be brought to justice, not because Fisk, Moore and Pilger stamp and froth, but because it is right - just like the liberation of Iraq.

Stop grasping at me Michael!

fidens, the people who refer to the "plastic turkey" are presumably making a larger point, but Tim is right to bash them for dodgy journalism. The "actually" was an example of equally dodgy (or at least uninformed) journalism.

Michael, I don't care what you say, I am not a mountain!

As a Diamond Valley resident I was amused by your reference to our local rag.

We have plenty more nutjobs in Diamond Valley apart from from a Clown who wants a Department of Peace and Democracy. (I wonder if she would support a vote on the death penalty)

Guess where Phillip Adams grew up? Diamond Valley. He went to Eltham High.

Newsflash: it is possible to oppose bombing and invasion, without believing that Saddam Hussein was a paragon of moral virtue.

America is not rushing to invade North Korea, but that doesn't mean Bush is necessarily unprincipled or morally confused.

"The opponents of the war" may hold a more diverse range of opinions than you believe.

Your name isn't really Mike Hunt is it?

For all practical purposes, Michael, your moral diversity and good intentions are absolutely, completely, utterlly and totally meaningless.

Fidens put the subject you were trying to spin pretty plainly and all you can do is change the subject. Tsk.

Sortelli, both Tim and fidens stated that only opponents of the war were outraged by reports of torture and murder. This is a bizarre assertion, as Bush himself did condemn the torture, no?

It is a bit strange to immediately drag Saddam into a discussion of coalition atrocities. "Sure, we tortured a *few* people, but he tortured heaps!" What exactly is that meant to prove, or achieve?

How about some concrete steps: dismissing civilian contractors from interrogation duties and canceling contracts with the company in question, then handing over the people responsible to face judgement in Iraq.

"Department of Peace and Democracy"

Kind of like being Against War and Fascism, or being Against Hospitals and Disease.

(fidens' confident prediction regarding justice for the perpretrators of atrocities seems baseless; what happened to Calley after My Lai? What happened to DynaCorp employees after Kosovo?)

I am also shocked, shocked that you would describe the angry reaction to the torture photographs from InstaPundit, Sgt. Stryker and the rest of the warblogging community as being from people who were "unmoved by the mutilation of US contract workers".

Tim didn't say that all critics of the torture were from people unmoved by the mutilation of US contract workers.

To be honest I would be more concerned if Australian contractors were torturing people, as I prefer not to subsidise such activity with my tax payments.

Did you buy any oil originating from Iraq while Saddam was torturing people?

Michael: Saddam was invaded to prevent him from ever acquring nukes - which the UN believed he had every intention of doing. I don't know if you've picked up this vital news but the only thing Saddam is going to nuke now is a bowl of noodles in some prison kitchenette.

"Don't forget the flavouring noodle bitch!"

And before you rubberturkey the word 'torture' (as the left has rubberturkeyed 'genocide'), try and assimilate the fact that those Iraqis weren't tortured, they were humiliated. For doing even this, the perpetrators will be justly punished.

No it's not Mike Hunt 'am'. It's his brother Yoric.

I don't know Andjam, are you referring to the time when he was still our strategic ally in the region and we were supplying him with chemical weapons to use against Iran? Probably not, as I didn't have a car.

"Two Iraqi faces that do appear in the photographs are those of dead men. There is the battered face of prisoner No. 153399, and the bloodied body of another prisoner, wrapped in cellophane and packed in ice. There is a photograph of an empty room, splattered with blood."

Ah well, boys will be boys. Just a humiliating but ultimately harmless prank, eh CurrencyLad?

It is great to see Saddam won't have nukes, though.

Now, what's going to stop Chalabi getting nukes?

Mike Hunt, Moreland has way more nutjobs than Diamond Valley.

Transport policy:

'(Moreland) encourages alternatives to cars and trucks, by improving access to public transport, cycling and walking.'

Ever tried to truck a load of freight using a bicycle? Good luck.

PS: Apply for your arts grant now and beat the rush.

I believe in the rule of law which is why I believe those soldiers must be punished. You must bring forward evidence, EVIDENCE, of what you claim, regarding deaths.

You suggest the right must accept that ant-war proponents can actually be critical of Saddam. I suggest that the left accept that pro-war advocates CAN accept that a few US soldiers did the wrong thing and should be punished.

The leitmotif of the debate is equivalency. To suggest that the case on the morality of war is now lost is total horseshit unless the left can ever make the case that 300,000 actual deaths and 1000,000+ instances of real torture have taken place in Coalition-controlled facilities.

Remember the scene in 'Saving Private Ryan' when a few soldiers shoot surrendering Germans at Normandy? Illegal? Probably. Worthy of punishment? Perhaps. Any relevance to the morality of the invasion or the Allied plan to remove Hitler? None whatsoever.

Well, I was only quoting from the army's report, maybe they just make this kind of shit up for fun.

I *know* that those in favour of war can be justly outraged by the actions of a few bad apples. But can they be outraged by systematic torture used during interrogation in American prisons around the world? I suspect not.

Looking at the Costs/Benefits ratio of the war, the revelation of these atrocities merely adds to the "Costs" column. The "Benefits" column currently shows... Saddam in custody, with no chance of acquiring nukes. Hopefully a few more benefits can be added in coming months...

I have asked this many times "can you produce evidence of Saddam being suppled with chemical weapons by the US", well can you be the first Michael.

Well shucks Gary, you got me on that one.

Change my question to read: "and when we were shooting down Iranian airliners on Saddam's behalf?", okay?

Michael,

You wrote: "both Tim and fidens stated that only opponents of the war were outraged by reports of torture and murder. This is a bizarre assertion, as Bush himself did condemn the torture, no?"
I did not say "ONLY" - I support the war and I myself am outraged at the abuse.

My beef (I can't speak for tim) is that the anti-war mob seem only to be outraged in so much as it gives them a stick with which to beat Bush and the US in general. There was a noticeable absence of outrage at Saddams crimes, just as there is about Cuba, North Korea, Iran etc. The anti-imperialism strain of leftist thought (erroneously manifested as anti-Americanism) trumps the anti-fascist strain.

If you want to see real anger at the conduct of these rogue elements, talk to a marine or soldier who has to deal will the fallout on the streets of Iraq and who wants to be proud of his or her service.

FWIW: reports are emerging that the worst abuse was committed by Iraqi guards, albeit on the coalition's watch.

That's about all you do is change the subject,Michael . Yet another self appointed Blog nanny. Ok once more, can you produce evidence of Saddam being helped by the US to shoot down an Iranian airliner?

Erm, that was a rhetorical question, right Gary?

"In July 1988 the US Navy battle cruiser Vincennes shot down an Iranian airliner over the Persian Gulf, killing all 290 people on board."

Sure, it's fine to say people didn't pay enough heed to Saddam's torturings, etc etc blah blah -- isn't the point that WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE THE GOOD GUYS?

Yes I have heard of that Michael but my question was meant for you produce evidence that US intent was to help Saddam. It is interesting that you nag about context and accuracy when you don't link to the Source. Might it be that it will not support your opinion if you did so?

Back OT; The Laws and Denton interview was interesting the other night, on EnoughRope. A bit of innuendo from Laws, about the good Professor's love of closets.
I saw an interesting distinction between one comment that Laws made about having just one telephone conversation with Paul Keating in nine years since he resigned from parliament, follwoed fairly quickly after by Laws agreeing with Denton about being good friends with Keating.

Denton didn't say anything to about it, but just left it out there for us to make our own minds up.

All in all, it sounded more like Laws justifying his public 'outing' of a private conversation, defending his own place in the pantheon of Sydney radio stars..

Magoo: I agree. Laws was drop-dead boring too, no? What a contrast to the interview with the lovely Deborah Mailman.

Okay, my children, the Michael Show is over for the day -- or the evening, or whatever time period it is over there. We must make room for other trolls to flaunt their showy and pointless outrage. Michael, if you sign on with another IP, as I am sure you will since you can seem to keep away from a website you so despise, please think of your brother trolls and give them a chance at their place in the sun.

YA! hammer the knob! all them werds make me 'ead ert!

I am mighty peaved with this Iraqi prisoner mistreatment. Imagine all the blood and treasure spent to acheive what we have in Iraq. All that has been done regardless of the constant sniping and carping of the left. The indecent craving for failure in Iraq by the left. Then some IDIOTS go and do this and take PICTURES of it?! For the love of God!!

Why not just take video of a female soldier shiting on the Koran and be done with it. We are supposed to be better than this. I am however aware that this is mild treatment compared to what is meted out in Arab gaols but we just gave the 'useful fools' of the left a free kick.

ohhhh mum ;-)

Yes, Dog -- one of the sad things about it is the unseemly delight many of the Leftovers are displaying about this whole sad affair. Not in the events themselves, but in the fact that this has given them a new stick with which to beat their enemies; never mind that this happened last year and the perpetrators have already been found and are facing justice.

God, it's like they're positively tickled over it. Ever since the news broke they've been running to every blog they can to troll the comments and say WHAT ABOUT THIS?

And it's been acknowledged. People want the criminals dealt with. This isn't being covered up, it's being exposed and prosecuted. But that's not the point. The point with asshats like Michael is never to STOP things like this, never to take action against them, it's to FLAUNT these as a talking point.

You want to know what the similarity is between torture under Saddam and torture under Coalition forces? The Coalition forces stopped both.

My goodnes, see a lot of "it wasn't us" whining going on from the pro-war goons. Saddam was a popular guy with the Coalition when he was killing Iranians - why can't they admit it. Go ahead admit it - it will cleanse your souls!
"Yes Yes we admit it . WE LOVED SADDAM WHEN HE WAS KILLING IRANIANS"
Halleluja my brothers.

Disregarding that there was no Coalition back then, carlos, do you rejoice when Palestinian freedom fighters gun down women and children?

"The Day After" is considerably older than 1983 - late 60s I think.

Damn - does this "The Day After" dating scandal expose you to a thorough seeing-to on Media Watch? Will Marr mar Blair's blemish-free reputation?

My goodnes, buy a diktshunarie, carlos, and we'll all say Halleluja!

The Day After was definitely released in 1983. Interestingly, in Australia it showed in cinemas.

Tim, best column yet.

Thanks, mate!

Sortelli, carlos wouldn't care if a car load of children were machine gunned near his home. He said so in an earlier post, as I asked him so myself. So Palestinian terrorists gunning down women and children are probably boring for him.

The "Day After" was released in 1983. But in the USA, it was a TV movie. You Aussies had to pay for it? What a rip off! It was a bad enough to have controversy over the flick back then, which turned out to be just a political piece of tripe.

Yeah, I remember Jeff. I also remember how he twisted that into a "Israel should get out of the neighborhood" line, too.

I also remember being vaguely surprised at his asshattery, but I can't imagine why.

Michael:

Stop torturing me.

The parrot only responds to a nice scratching of his tummy.

Oh that's so cute, Miranda -- you'll get a new cuttlefish bone in your cage tomorrow.

Sortelli, your vague suprise at carlos' asshattery is probably a result of carlos being vague himself. Not to mention vapid and vacant.

Andrea, they're being mean...

And I care, carlos, I really do.

Guys: meanness is out. That's not what we're all about here at Tim Blair HQ. From now on I want full-on, no-holds-barred, no-quarter-given, Xtreem! personal insults to be directed at carlos and all his little friends. Remember -- don't hold back! You have reputations to uphold, and trolls to send back to their mama's laps, weeping like little girls.

Never knew there was a film called The Day After, only knew of the BBC docu-drama of the mid-1960s which turns out to be called "The War Game", not "The Day After". Buggar. Memory fading..... must write address on handkerchief... where is that handkerchief....anybody seen my pen....

I went to see a Ken Loach movie once. Would have slashed my wrists halfway through but didn't have a blade handy.

I am glad our country never supported the ill-intended invasion of Iraq. I cannot believe that the American public is so naive as to believe the endless propaganda that comes out of Washington. My suggestion is to get as much of the oil you came for and get out before this becomes another Vietnam. Another suggestion is :Don't put people like Saddam Hussien in power to begin with"