January 15, 2004


How is it even possible to negotiate with these people?

Israel must take full responsibility for a suicide attack on its border with Gaza which left the female bomber and four Israelis dead, Palestine said today.

"Israel bears sole responsibility for what has happened as it continues the occupation, construction of the wall, the closures and the escalation," Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat's chief adviser Nabil Abu Rudeina said.

Posted by Tim Blair at January 15, 2004 10:18 AM

That'll teach the Jews to blow themselves up.

Posted by: Amos at January 15, 2004 at 10:26 AM

stupid joos. why can't they just all kill themselves already? so selfish.

you can't negotiate with the jordygtians - all you can do is build a very large wall and say "enjoy your paradise" once it's complete.

Posted by: hen at January 15, 2004 at 10:50 AM

I absolutely agree that they should take responsibility.

The responsible thing to do is to "admonish" the groups claiming credit, as well as their apologists.

Posted by: Greg at January 15, 2004 at 10:50 AM

"... Palestine said today."

Palestine? Where the hell is that? Was a Palestinian state declared while I slept last night, or are these unnamed "correspondents in Ramallah" engaging in wishful thinking?

Posted by: Goldenwebb at January 15, 2004 at 11:11 AM

Goldenwebb wrote:

Was a Palestinian state declared while I slept last night, or are these unnamed "correspondents in Ramallah" engaging in wishful thinking?
Well this past weekend they declared they could unilaterally declare a state, maybe they did do it last night while we were all asleep.

Posted by: tom at January 15, 2004 at 11:28 AM

I think it's connected with deliberate amnesia. Japan has a similar kind of thing with regard to WWII. One, an annual ceremony for Hiroshima as if it were like really unfortunate bad weather, unconnected with anything they did; and, two, that Radio Japan at least, in every interview and news item, is pro-Palestinian. I think this so that they will not have been on the wrong side in WWII. If one is true, the other needn't be brought up again.

Probably for Palestinians it is the same sort of thing. It shows up as tone-deafness with respect to another audience. I would look for repression of some sort rather than some huge cultural and mental difference.

Posted by: Ron Hardin at January 15, 2004 at 11:29 AM

'Palestine' is indeed correct, whoever that entity may be. The stupid Jews are always causing problems by doing stuff like living and breathing and other provocative acts. The Palestinians freedom fighters are forced into retaliating, although they would prefer not to. So when they do react, blowing up people for fun, it is the Jews fault.

Kapish? Because I sure fucking don't!

Posted by: Kevin at January 15, 2004 at 11:47 AM

OT: Draft proposal to crush dissent:

My employer's draft email policy says that "Staff must not use university email to create dissent". I am sending this while I can. I dissent.

Dr Scott Poynting, University of Western Sydney, Penrith, January 14.

Posted by: Andjam at January 15, 2004 at 11:55 AM

(Letter to the SMH published today)

Posted by: Andjam at January 15, 2004 at 11:56 AM

Why should anyone bear "responsibility" for a glorious act of martyrdom? If the Israelis truly caused this, they will be treated to eighty black-eyed virgins in paradise.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Posted by: Alan Anderson at January 15, 2004 at 12:25 PM

What if Israel takes responsibility and then exercises the authority necessary to put a stop to these bombings? Would that make everyone happy?

Posted by: Charles Austin at January 15, 2004 at 12:34 PM

How do you negotiate with them? God alone knows.

But someone better figure it out - unless you've got some other magic solution up your sleeve. (In which case - do tell...)

As for hen, above: Building the wall doesn't seem to be making much impact, does it? Perhaps (just perhaps) it's part of the problem, not part of the solution?

Posted by: Nemesis at January 15, 2004 at 12:36 PM

Maybe the Israelis should build a really, really bit field where angry Palestinians and go and blow themselves up to protest whatever. They could even put in TV cameras so everyone could watch.

Posted by: JorgXMcKie at January 15, 2004 at 12:57 PM

"I have poured glue in the works of your watch..."

Posted by: Rick C at January 15, 2004 at 01:12 PM


In places the wall is complete the incidences of homicide bombings has been largely reduced and has even stopped completely.

Posted by: Gary at January 15, 2004 at 01:17 PM

As for hen, above: Building the wall doesn't seem to be making much impact, does it? Perhaps (just perhaps) it's part of the problem, not part of the solution?

Actually Hen, did you read the story a month or two ago about the two bombers that were diverted because of the wall, and had to go close to a checkpoint and the IDF intercepted them ?

They were heading towards a frigging Israeli primary school. The wall has already saved lives, why can't some of its critics at least concede that it does some good.

I know that most of its supporters can admit that it is far from perfect. But its an improvement, and so it should have been built !

Posted by: Jono at January 15, 2004 at 01:29 PM

Israel ought to try the Marxist-leninist-Stalinist solution.Re-locate the illegal land occupying Jordanians from the west bank of the river to their
proper Islamofacist kingdom on the east bank. As for Gaza, repatriate the Egyptians back across the canal to their North African country to live in peace and harmony with their fellow *moonbats*,er countrymen.

Posted by: cubanbob at January 15, 2004 at 01:39 PM

About a week ago I was on campus at the University of Washington (I am considering going there) and right near the student union, the usual gang of idiots had erected a huge banner reading "The Berlin Wall is down, tear down the Israeli Wall!" or something to that effect. I find it a little ironic that given the fact that those particular groups have thinly veiled (if not openly expressed) marxist sympathies, and would consider the fall of the Berlin wall to be a good thing...

Posted by: Vexorg at January 15, 2004 at 01:58 PM

Your a dick.

Go build a wall around your dunny and brick yourself until 2025.

Posted by: Arik at January 15, 2004 at 02:37 PM

PA embrace of the latest achievement in pointless Palestinian depravity would seem to show IJ and Hamas really are dominant in Gaza -- the PA can't even afford to react with their usual crocodile tear theatrics.

To Tim's point, one of the reasons for the wall is that the smart money says no, you can't negotiate with these people (not so much due to their moral degradation, but the absence of a reliable, competent partner). Therefore one intermediate solution is to build the wall, clear out the Gaza settlements and some of the more burdensome WB ones as well, and focus on other things while the Pals sort themselves out. The likely Israeli battle over settlements might seem nasty when it starts, but will seem like a pillow fight compared to the much nastier Pal internal battles over -- well, everything. Hard to see any real change until those two dust-ups are done.

Meanwhile, as the wall chokes off options for Pal terror planners, expect some desperate (and mostly bumbling and unsuccessful) attacks. The "early exploder" the other day was another in a growing list of low-quality recruits, a good sign things are grim among the heroic ranks of would-be child killers.

Posted by: IceCold at January 15, 2004 at 02:53 PM

Those dastardly Jews insulted the Arabs by granting the woman access to better medical treatment in Israel than available in Gaza.

So build the wall and cut off medical treatments.

Posted by: perfectsense at January 15, 2004 at 03:20 PM

So how many virgins does a female bomber get anyway? Was she a dyke or just looking forward to a large pyjama party in paradise?

Either way I'm glad she's dead but a big shame about the deaths of the soldiers.

My opinion on the wall is build it around these terrorists-in-waiting and let them blow themselves up to get out of it. Make it a reeeally thick wall.

How can even the most stupid lefty apologist think these fuckers are the victims? I feel more sympathy for the Israelis each time I hear about another terrorist murder

Posted by: Jake D at January 15, 2004 at 03:57 PM

"So how many virgins does a female bomber get anyway?"

A whole LAN party's worth!

Posted by: Yobbo at January 15, 2004 at 04:06 PM

I am SORRY - I posted an insult to YOU and meant to insult NEMESIS !

The embarassment! The ignomony!

And Nemesis - go brick yourself up somewhere. You made me do bad! Bad nemesis! Bad Bad nemesis!

Posted by: Arik at January 15, 2004 at 04:56 PM

Same song, different words.

We heard this song shortly after 9/11. "It's America's fault some nutzoes blew themselves up along with innocent people."

Heard different words, same tune, after Bali. "It's the fault of tourists with their bad ways of drinking and dancing. Especially the Australians."

The most sickening thing is we have people in our countries who really believe their nonsense. "What did WE do?", etc..

I'd be willing to bet $10 million that had Israeli, Australian, or American citizens been responsible (with proof) for 9/11, Bali, or suicide bombings in Israel ... all three countries and their citizens would TAKE RESPONSIBILITY and punish whoever did it.

Infantile peoples and countries blame others for their own actions. These people are not grown up enough to take care of a nation on their own.

An no, there is no reasoning with this mindset (= everyone's fault but ours).

Posted by: Chris Josephson at January 15, 2004 at 05:28 PM

I reckon one solution would be for the IDF to gather up all the parts and gore they can find. Visit the family, saying "We've bought something for you to remember her by" and upend the bucket on the kitchen table. And add, "And by the way, she's not in heaven, she's just here on your kitchen table". Very mind-concentrating and more effective than bulldozing the house (they can still do that a couple of days later anyway).

Posted by: Walter Plinge at January 15, 2004 at 06:01 PM

"And add, "And by the way, she's not in heaven, she's just here on your kitchen table". Very mind-concentrating and more effective than bulldozing the house (they can still do that a couple of days later anyway)."

Oh, no, I can't stop laughing.

Posted by: ushie at January 15, 2004 at 10:18 PM

Arik - it's cool.

As Golda Meir said: When the Arabs love their children more then they hate jewish children there will be peace.

This bitch murdered 3 jews and left her two children motherless.

Further to this story the PA/PLO has completely dropped the veil on this kind of stuff and have proclaimed on their state radio what a glorious operation this was.

How should Israel deal with this and these people: Build the wall, where-ever they damn see fit, and then start dropping bombs on Arafat, Hamas, Hezb'Allah and the rest of the terrorist LEADERS.

Fuck em - I lived in NYC on 9/11 and while the smell of death was in the air these death cultists were handing out candy to celebrate.

Posted by: hen at January 15, 2004 at 10:27 PM

Last night in the U.S. on ABC TV's 5:30PM (Central) news the Talking Headette said the woman "preferred martyrdom."

Killing Jews = martyrdom. Amazingly frank acknowledgement of where ABC's sympathies lie.

Posted by: Theodopoulos Pherecydes at January 15, 2004 at 10:58 PM

What exactly are the demands?
We're giving Pilate two days to dismantle the entire apparatus of the Roman Imperialist State, and if he doesn't agree immediately, we execute her.
Cut her head off?
Cut all her bits off. Send 'em back on the hour every hour. Show them we're not to be trifled with.
And of course, we point out that they bear full responsibility when we chop her up, and that we shall not submit to blackmail!

I bet that the Arabic-dubbed version of Life of Brian is the most hired video in Blockbuster at Ramallah. Where else would they get the material for their press releases.


Posted by: The_GOP_Elephant at January 15, 2004 at 11:27 PM

I seriously doubt that "Life of Brian" has been dubbed into Arabic -- no market for it. There's zero chance that the Arab ex-pats in Judea/Samaria would get it.

Posted by: Dean Douthat at January 16, 2004 at 12:47 AM

Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat - just when is he going to hold elections to verify that he is indeed reflecting the majority view of his people? Dont hold your breath.

Posted by: Rob at January 16, 2004 at 01:12 AM

Look at who authored the story:

Agence France-Presse

Posted by: zzx375 at January 16, 2004 at 03:53 AM

She racked up her kill total by crying and pretending to need help. Several soldiers came over to help her...and she blew them up--and herself to hell.

I make Jewish mother jokes. I even had a Jewish mother. But you will never, never, never find a Jewish mother with young children deciding to abandon them by murder-suicide.

Once again the Palestinians, who invented activities hitherto undreamed of, like slaughtering Olympic athletes, come up with a new form of savagery.

But let's hope this doesn't deter the Israelis from following the road map to peace.

Posted by: Alex Bensky at January 16, 2004 at 05:31 AM

A senior Fatah official, taking issue with the bombing, told Israel Radio that the object of the attack was to prompt Israel to declare a closure over the Gaza Strip and cut off access to jobs within Israel, measures that act to boost grass-roots Palestinian support for Hamas and other militant movements.

So in the end the Jews are to blame!

Posted by: Barry at January 16, 2004 at 06:14 AM

The real irony of these people's moronic actions is that their murdering only sets their cause back. How do you work out how to address such ingrained stupidity? Why are the idiots so profoundly gullible?

And the wall will not work. It is in some ways the supreme physical symbol of this mess. It is an in-your-face, physical statement of oppression to the Palestinians, and makes the work of those who incite violence that much easier. And like the Berlin Wall, it will fail.

It's always hard (impossible?) to see the best way through these things, but it should be clear to everyone that both sides are deeply misguided in their current approach. The results very much speak for themselves.

Until they change their ways, the dying will continue. Time will not heal these wounds - it needs a circuit breaker. Time (and me) will say nothing but I told you so. (Thanks to WHA).

All that said, I'm conscious I offer no answers, and from what I see above, neither do any of you. This is another depressing aspect of this issue - it seems so - intractable.

Perhaps we should go to Mars instead. I for one think that this is a splendid notion. And it might make a good home for warmongers and terrorists of all persuasions, what with it's lack of oxygen...

Posted by: Nemesis at January 16, 2004 at 12:22 PM

The euphemistically termed 'fence' is not like the Berlin Wall.

The Berlin Wall was built by the East German government to keep the East Germans in.
Non-East Germans could enter and leave pretty much at will, for a fee in convertible currency. The rate was 10 West German marks when I did it.

The "fence" is being built by the Israeli governemnt to keep non-Israelis out. Israelis who want to leave Israel can do so unhindered.

Posted by: Peggy Sue at January 16, 2004 at 02:15 PM

Nemisis, you are a twat. The Berlin Wall DID work for forty friggin' years; it minimised the flow of East Germans who would otherwise have poured over the border.

This fence will allow the Israelis to remove the many checkpoints and blockades which make life inside Palestinian territory more inconvenient; instead of being faced with troops and checkpoints and guns in their face as they travel every day, the Palestinians will just be left looking at a big bloody wall.

Eventually, even they will figure out in that situation that their predicament cannot be entirely the fault of the Jews. Until then, they'll have to content themselves with fouling their own nest.

Posted by: Alan Anderson at January 16, 2004 at 02:50 PM


The day you say something besides a tortured merry goround of slogans and contradictions is the day I will give up smoking. And even in that unlikely event you couldn't last a couple of days.

Posted by: Gary at January 16, 2004 at 04:50 PM