Tim Blair

There are, after all, only 270 rich people in the United States.

A million to one odds. Wow. I hadn't realize that there were only about 280 millionaires in America. I would have thought there's almost that many milionaires in the 30-year old rock bands conducting their latest farewell tours. But what's really bad is his insinutation that there's something wrong with working for a living, as though everyone is somehow entitled to a life of luxury at the expense of others.

As for his size, maybe he took that old Life cereal commercial to heart and decided that since his name was Mikey, he just had to eat everything -- including the rich.

Why does anybody pay attention to this idiot? Why does he still live in the States? - hell he could live in France... Everybody is a whole lot smater and richer in France. But he might have to lose some weight.

As of 2001 there were more than 2,100,000 millionaires in the US. So it's closer to 1:100 than 1:1,000,000 so he's only off by 10,000.

Ooops, here's some even more current numbers:
http://money.cnn.com/2003/09/29/pf/millionaire/q_millionairesmultiply/

John - got a link or a cite for that number? I'm not doubting it, I just want to be able to use it in polite conversation.

Well, according to Mikey, I must be REAL unusual, since I've become a millionnaire through business twice, and each time ended up losing it by not being willing to give up any control. (This is MY baby! You may NOT do the payroll! You may NOT do the strategic planning! You may NOT call on the customers! Leave my baby ALONE!) I am not whining about anybody keeping me down. The problems were of my own making.

I have to disagree with Michael about the rich thing, too. I was with my father-in-law when somebody started to moan about how lucky my father-in-law was to be wealthy. My father-in-law pointed out that that person, too, could be as wealthy as, or even more wealthy, than my father-in-law. All it took was working 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 30 or 40 years. Success, whether you choose to measure it in worldy goods or by some other measure, depends on the choices that you make.

Charles: A pity Moore didn't eat a bunch of Pop Rocks and combine it with soda.

(Yes, I know. That didn't happen with the real Mikey. He's still alive. But one can dream.)

RC Dean...See second link, the CNN one.

The CNN page that cites 3.8 million millionaire households is referring to NFO WorldGroup's calculation. This only includes "investable assets", which is peculiar because it does not include homes. For most people, the home is the largest single investment. If a millionaire is simply defined as someone with more than $1 million in net worth, including all assets such as homes, then the number of US millionaires is probably closer to 10 million.

That's about 3% of the population. In the US you have a 1 in 33 chance of ending up a millionaire. But of course, it's not really about chance.

Of course, "rich" doesn't have to be defined as millionaire. Moore could just mean that only the top 270 are rich. In 2002, Forbes reported there were 245 U.S. billionaires (http://www.forbes.com/2002/02/28/billionaires.html), which is pretty close to 1 in a million. Perhaps Moore believes anyone with less than a billion is in the struggling middle class. That's certainly one way for him to justify claiming to be just another working guy.

Has Michael Moore been moonlighting writing North Korean music videos? You be the judge.

'Rich' = the 49% of the population that is to be flayed to support the other 51% sometimes known as the Democrat voting bloc

2,000,000 / 270 = 7,142.85.

Off by a factor of 7,143 (rounding to the nearest integer). He's definitely improving.

Why is Moore so successful? It's a head-scratcher to me too. The only reason I can think of is that he milks the Joe Schmoe/regular guy schtick for all it's worth. I imagine the meanderings of say, an undergraduate member of the International Socialists Organization: "He's so fat and dishevled, which is cool. It's like, phony and bourgeois to worry so much about cleanliness and looking perfect. For that reason alone, he has to be honest and sincere!"

[Moore] believes some well-placed suicide bombs or terrorist attacks could change everything. "At that point, you will find millions of Americans clamouring for martial law ... The American people will be so freaked out they will demand that the White House take action, round up anyone and everyone. That's what I fear."

I'm not sure if there is a contradiction but his statement is partially right; the was no clamor for martial law but Americans got it anyway.

so everyone who is a millionaire in the US got there by themselves, did they? you trying to tell me a great swag of them didn't inherit that wealth?

I think Tiny Tim has envy issues, staring too long at the bulge in Eat Moore's jeans - his wallet. Or maybe its just that Moore can apparently write whole books, not just a ritalin chompin' "column" like Tim.

Doesn't explain his S&M-for-Margo though. That must be something else... poor Timmeh.

More proof of martial law.

so everyone who is a millionaire in the US got there by themselves, did they? No, just the one's who didn't inherit it. you trying to tell me a great swag of them didn't inherit that wealth? Don't know about Tim, but *I'll* tell you that. As a US citizen, I would suggest you follow Tim's lead and expand your horizons. Enjoy.

I'm sorry, I think you misinterpreted my speech act. I meant that a great many existing millionaires inherited their wealth. Some not all of the x million are 1st generation / self made. The cows are coming home and I think the point is made.

Thanks very much for the reading.

One the greatest obstacles to becoming a millionaire in America is taxes, and Michael Moore wants higher taxes which will result in fewer millionaires.

I can't remember the exact percentage, but when last I checked, I think it was something like 85% of all millionaires in the US were self-made. Now, keep in mind the definition of millionaire: someone whose assets are worth greater than $1,000,000. That farmer who drives the '78 Ford pickup but just bought a new $350,000 combine? He's a millionaire. Doesn't have a new Jag sitting in the barn, though, does he?

Baker,

You are correct; many existing millionaires have inherited their wealth. Many others earned it by creating 39,100, 55,000, and 40,000+ relatively good paying jobs. Or should I just say "jobs" period? Because I fear that without the likes of these millionaires, some of the fine folks employed at these corporations wouldn't have jobs *at all* and would therefore be the subjects of Ms. Ehrenreich's petri-dish curiosity. Provided she wasn't off seeing her doctor.

someone whose assets are worth greater than $1,000,000

Make that "net" assets.

Mr. Moore has an ability to stir up controversy and entertain his audience with his comments. I don't see anything unusual about his success.

But I would like to see a dedicated sur-tax passed for people like Mr. Moore with the proceeds going to universal day-care. I would like to see him flensed like the whale he is...for the children.

I don't think its the average Joe that buys his books. Is there any statistics that proves ether way? He found a market and is providing a service that his followers want just like all other capitalist. Its common for middle to upper income earners to support such people and be one of the guys "little people" its a lot cheaper to buy a book then to live by example. But his films being referred to as documentaries shows how much contempt his supporters have for the average Joe.

Thanks for the link, John S. We cross-posted.

A leftist Rush Limbaugh, indeed.

Strange though... according to the moaning of the far left, all they needed to triumph over the Republicans was to get their message out like Rush Limbaugh has been getting the far right's message out.

Michael Moore has been doing just that for, what, five years now? And for some reason, the Democrats' influence has been declining rapidly all that time. Funny, that, but anyone who's been paying attention would notice that the rise of Rush Limbaugh actually coincided with the election of Bill Clinton. But leftists are all way too smart to fall for such obvious logic.

Wow... MM is the first anti-motivational speaker -- getting rich by telling people they'll never amount to anything!

Wish I would have thought of that...

Millions of millionaires - is there any better repudiation of socialism, or any greater affirmation of capitalism, than that?

I think that it is most appropriate that the cover of Moore's book "Stupid White Men" features a large colour photo of Moore himself.

I'd have no real problem with Moore's work if it was always placed in the "fiction" category...or perhaps a small disclaimer on/inside the cover of the book that says "for entertainment purposes only".

Bear in mind that two thirds of America's millionaires made their fortunes by selling cakes to Micheal Moore so if you disregard them his point has a lot of validity.

Re: Moore's "fear" of martial law--What a few shopping mall bombs would accomplish is the wanton murder of fat bastards like him and his "ilk".

(Hey, if Tim can have "ilk", then Moore has "ilk".)

I truly believe that had we not gone on the offensive but instead laid back passively the way the Democratic candidates now counsel,
further attacks would have had (misguided) vigilante groups killing American Muslims (as well as Sikhs & Hindus) and anybody stupid enough to mouth off anti-American boilerplate. It would be inevitable.

Unlike the Left, I don't think Americans are generally knuckle dragging haters (quite the opposite) but if elected representatives don't uphold the US Constitution, the citizenry will take matters into its own hands. The first sentence requires "...provide for the common defense..." Bush read the situation and the mood of the country correctly and has created a strategy to deal with Islamofascism. Howard and Blair understand. Moore doesn't.

If the US had continued to sustain civilian casualties in our own country, Moore's big mouth would've probably gotten him shot.

By the way, the bastard who killed the Sikh gas (petrol) station owner in Arizona in "reprisal" for 9/11 has been sentenced to death. I'm glad but maybe the "Free Mumia" crowd would like to rally 'round that racist bastard, too.

Recently there was a discussion on National Review Online about 'crunchy cons.' They are folks whose conservative viewpoints are in contrast to their bobo lifestyles. Well, in a sense Moore is the opposite. He plays the role of Red America prole, while esposuing the beliefs that are fashionable in the salons and Starbucks of Berkley, Cambridge, the Upper West Side, Seattle, Beverly Hills, Ann Arbor and Austin. Part of his success is his faux prole image. 'See, one of *them* is enlightened. That's as amusing as a dancing bear!'

I'm not a millionaire and, frankly, as lazy as I am, I don't deserve to be. But then neither does Michael Moore. He should give me his money.

Jack said:

"Why does anybody pay attention to this idiot? Why does he still live in the States? - hell he could live in France... Everybody is a whole lot smater and richer in France."

AMEN!!

I used to check MM's web site every so often. Had a message board. Was amusing to observe the 'MM faithful' debate with posters who were grounded in reality and facts.

Message board was taken down (reason was technical difficulties, at first) and I don't think it's back in operation. I believe it's because too many of the 'MM faithful' were being confronted with facts. Only thing I give the guy credit for is that he didn't seem to censor posts, unlike Indymedia or democraticunderground.

More money equals more food. I suppose Mike's just trying to discourage any competition.

Haven't you heard? Michael Moore DID move to France. Why do you think so many old French people suddenly started to disappear in August? Mikey was dining on ancients francaises aux vin.

Moore I think appeals to that side of us (or those of us) who think watching a TV show or movie is enough to make us "really radical, man". He makes some worthwhile points but comments like the one above are just patronising.

Go to Moore's website and you will see that he has a Bowling for Columbine Teacher's Guide, which includes essay questions such as "Why is Michael Moore the only voice of reason in the United States? Discuss" (Just joking there).

Personally I am a no talent, lefty whiner with a chip on my shoulder. When do I get my big bucks? I am also borderline computer illiterate and don't know how to do the links properly (apologies).

and what, exactly, is wrong with inheriting wealth? if your father earned that money, he has the right to give it to you on his death if he chooses to do so.

You should remember that the oldest family fortune in the US is the Mellon banking family, and it dates back only to 1850 or so. While many people inherit wealth, many also lose it. The old saying of "shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations" (father makes it by hard work, offspring conserves it, grandchildren spend/lose it) still seems to hold true a lot. I've seen it happen to people I grew up with.

Also, my favorite Americans are the two Hunt brothers (Nelson Bunker and somebody, not the KC Chiefs owner) managed to lose *$4Billion*. That took talent. They lost an actual 4B, not stock value like Bill Gates does. Lotsa people trying to help you conserve 4B because they make money off it. I know of no other case in history where anyone *lost* 4B. Sure, get it confiscated/stolen by a new govt or crooks, get shot and a 100% death tax, okay, but to F'in LOSE it takes talent (and the US).

In the US you should look at the churn. Those famous 400 richest people in the US from 1990 0r so to 2000 actually turned out to be more like 1400 different folks. Only 4-5% of the bottom quintile earners stay there for more than 5 years and only about 10% of the top quintile earners stay there for more than 10 years.

Folks, it's the change, the uncertainty. Michael Moore and Lefties absolutely *hate* the pure unpredictability of it.

No man is an island, except for Michael Moore; he now has his own zip code, and may have himself towed outside the twelve mile limit for tax purposes.
(And with a bit of luck there'll be an Icelandic whaler lying in wait for the bloater).

Does that mean I ahve to kill and steal 139 other people's money, becuase I have no talents and need that extra boost...

I think Habib meant to say "he has is own area code".

BTW, if you listen to the Democrats, you will notice that their definitions of "rich" (those who are taxed at the highest rate) and "poor" (those who get subsidies) are slowly converging so that there will no longer be a "middle".

Ken --

That's the point! The hard left needs for society to be divided into the evil rich and the virtuous proles. You can't have a good ol' fashioned class war with these middle people about! They screw everything up!

[slaps forehead] Of course! Why couldn't I see that?

"When I go outside
To get my mail
It registers
On the Richter Scale."

"I'm fat
I'm fat
You know it!"

Shine the light Irene A.!!!

Hickwit humour everywhere and you have the bravery to stand up and be boldly big.

Irene In Da House! Boom Shanka!

If I were poor,
I would be thin,
but 'coz i'm rich,
I'm a Zeppelin!

I'm from a working class neighborhood, and several of my old friends and neighbors are now millionares. Two of my brothers are darn close. One my friends went to Hollywood and now produces movies (and was nominated for an Oscar). One of my most succesful friends started a construction business and is now very wealthy.

Everyone above had amazing drive and worked very hard. The Left, by belittling their achievements, in effect want to take all that away from them. We should all lounge around in 35 hour work week jobs, and pay high taxes.

Thecommentators are wrong and Moore is right. You have to remember that the books is addressing his audience. Moore can rightly figure that only the truly dense will buy his book. And their chances of getting rich? Well, what are the lottery odds again?

Millions of millionaires - is there any better repudiation of socialism, or any greater affirmation of capitalism, than that?

two millions of millionaires... and tens of millions of people without decent health care... and 3.5 million people homeless every year...

the glass isn't empty but don't try to pretend its full either.

Baker,
I suppose you believe in redistribution of wealth?