November 10, 2004


Those primitive Americans who voted for "moral values" are so ignorant, so unsophisticated, so ... European:

Italians largely oppose gay marriage with 61 percent rejecting homosexual wedlock and even more opposed to adoption for same-sex couples, a poll on Sunday showed.

In traditionally Roman Catholic Italy, home to the Vatican, only 32 percent of the population is favorable to gay marriage, according to a survey carried out for la Repubblica newspaper.

Only 21 percent of Italians thought a homosexual couple should be allowed to adopt a child.

I blame Karl Rome. Er, Rove.

Posted by Tim Blair at November 10, 2004 01:38 PM

Well yes, but Italian homophobia is more than compensated for by their friendliness towards non white immigrants. Oh wait...

Posted by: gaz at November 10, 2004 at 01:44 PM

Italians aren't the right kind of Europeans,obviously.

Posted by: gubbaboy at November 10, 2004 at 01:58 PM

Quick, someone photoshop Italy off the coast of South Carolina as part of Jesusland. It'll be teh funnay!

Posted by: Dylan at November 10, 2004 at 02:04 PM

Fortunately for the Italians they have their intellectual betters to tell them what they should think and how they should arrange their institutions. Most Americans--and Aussies, for that matter--have to stumble through without such guidance, although I'm always open to advice from Guardian writers.

Posted by: Alex Bensky at November 10, 2004 at 02:23 PM

Hmm, how do "moral values" lead to opposing marriage anyway? I'm still a bit confused on that one.

Posted by: Michael at November 10, 2004 at 02:30 PM

Giumbba Giume!

Posted by: Paul Zrimsek at November 10, 2004 at 02:36 PM

I blame God - if he'd only prove his existance and tell us gays will go to hell if we let them marry, problem solved.

Posted by: Len at November 10, 2004 at 03:00 PM

Obviously Berlusconi is on the job. Way to go you RWDB!

Posted by: Razor at November 10, 2004 at 03:10 PM

I suppose the Vatican argues that it's OK to abuse boys, but not to marry them.

Posted by: mr magoo at November 10, 2004 at 03:38 PM

(wow that was really cheap magoo.)

Maybe Italy can rattle up the EU with more people like buttiglioni actually standing for what they believe . a breath of fresh air thats for sure...

Posted by: Will S at November 10, 2004 at 03:52 PM

I love how the mainstream media always writes about "traditionally Roman Catholic Italy" (or Spain). Italy is traditionally Roman Catholic the way the South of the United States is traditionally Democrat, i.e. not for at least a generation now.

Posted by: AC at November 10, 2004 at 04:01 PM

Another country falls to Karl Rove's march to world domination.

Posted by: perfectsense at November 10, 2004 at 04:22 PM

I thought you were libertarian, Tim. At least that's what you've claimed in the past. Who cares if a couple of poofs want to marry? Their rights only end where mine begin, right? So how does their marrying affect you or me? I say good on 'em, whatever makes them happy is fine with me.

Posted by: Trojan at November 11, 2004 at 12:29 AM

Tim wasn't saying anything about his own views, Trojan, he was pointing out that so-called "enlightened, Progressive, more tolerant than Ameicans" Europe is anything but. Please read before you comment.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at November 11, 2004 at 03:05 AM

I don't know about the Italians, but I think most Americans think that what consenting adults do behind closed doors is none of their business. However, gay-rights advocates don't realize that asking for legal recognition of same-sex marriage is different in a crucial respect.

They're no longer just asking the rest of the voters to "ignore" their sexual practices; instead they're asking the others to endorse their life-style, and give them legal rights and benefits that unmarried adults don't have.

Society has been willing for give heterosexual marriages special consideration on the assumption that they would be raising children, and we like to "think of the children" when writing our laws and tax codes. However, gay couples raising children appear to be very rare, so why the need to give them special treatment under the law?

What happens in the bedrooms of gay couples is none of my business, but if they want my political support to give them more rights and benefits than I have as an unmarried adult, they're going to have to convince me why I should do so...

Posted by: Siergen at November 11, 2004 at 09:26 AM

Siergen: you're using logic and reason. You know that isn't allowed. ;)

Posted by: Andrea Harris at November 11, 2004 at 11:08 AM

I'm generally suspicious of slippery slope arguments, but I have a feeling you can't change marriage "just a little". In western tradition, it has two fundamentals: 2 people, opposite genders. If the second can be changed, so can the first, especially since there's millions of people today living in polygamous marraiges, and surely some of them immigrate every year.

I personally am not against polygamy, polyandry, polamory polwhatever, but I don't think people should take the first step unless they're willing to go all the way down the road.

Posted by: Ted at November 11, 2004 at 01:44 PM