November 07, 2004

BIGGER THAN BRITAIN

Number of people who voted for Bush: 59,651,262

Number of people who live in Britain: 59,600,000

Via Quentin George in comments. Oh, I almost forgot:

Number of dentists in Britain: 31,600

Posted by Tim Blair at November 7, 2004 03:38 AM
Comments

ROTFLMOA!!!!!!

Let's be generous and forgiving. Let's start a toothbrush drive for the british and show how compassionate we can be. :)

Posted by: mshyde at November 7, 2004 at 03:44 AM

I don't know if 31 600 is supposed to be a lot or not many. All I know is that we in the UK pay for the NHS through our taxes (and through our nose), but buggered if you can get a dentist on the NHS here any more. They're all going private.

I can't even move to a new doctor in my area, as they're all full up. I have to stay with my old one (who luckily isn't far away), and not tell her I've moved.

(60 million people / 31 600 dentists = 1900 patients per dentist = about 8 patients a day, given 240 working days a year).

Posted by: Scott Campbell at Blithering Bunny at November 7, 2004 at 04:13 AM

Team Bleh you're a genius.

Posted by: Cridland at November 7, 2004 at 04:19 AM

How many liposuction doctors are there in America? Not enough, clearly.

Why the anti-British stuff on this site all of a sudden? When the Anglosphere falls out, only bin Laden and - worse - the French will gain.

Is this site assuming that the Guardian speaks for Britain? That's like saying that Michael Moore speaks for America. Or Margo speaks for Australia. Read Churchill - that's a much better guide to British opinions and character when the free world is in danger than the Grauniad ever will be.

Posted by: PJ at November 7, 2004 at 05:00 AM

Having green teeth and halitosis isn't incompatible with supporting Bush. Most of my lefty, hand wringing, bed wetting, bunny hugging liberal friends have better teeth than me.

Good dentistry is over rated.

Posted by: GreentoothedEnglishman4Bush at November 7, 2004 at 05:33 AM

"Is this site assuming that the Guardian speaks for Britain?"

That's the only possible explanation, isn't it? At first I thought it was because it's funny how the Clark County thing blew up in the Guardian staff's faces, arguably producing the exact opposite of the intended result and in a very direct way, but I like your theory better.

Posted by: Jim Treacher at November 7, 2004 at 05:34 AM

Ironically most Grauniad readers would reguard the 5965162 people who voted for Bush as stump toothed hillbillies.

Posted by: Ross at November 7, 2004 at 05:38 AM

PJ
Took the words right out of my mouth. I have an extended family in the UK with whom I'm in constant touch. They're as cranky as a bag full of bulldogs over all of the anti-American beat-ups by the sleazy Pommy Press and the chattering classes.

Posted by: Boss Hog at November 7, 2004 at 05:42 AM

PJ,

I don't see it as anti-British exactly, more anti-left-wing intelligencia, of which Le Guardienne is the leading light. The Brits that I've personally spoken to (here in So. Cal. not that many, to be honest) dismiss the Guardian and the Independent as Marxist rubbish.

Posted by: Spiny Norman at November 7, 2004 at 05:43 AM

Jim -

I yield to no man in my amusement at the results of the Guardian's stunts. In fact, it may well be the funniest thing in politics this year (apart from Labour's crushing defeat in the recent referendum on government in the NE, but that's more parochial). I've e-mailed a number of friends on the subject, and sniggered over the phone with a few more.

But, to repeat, the Guardian does not speak for anyone besides its self-important, patronising, socialistic staff. I repeat my advice to read Churchill to understand the temper of these islands - I wonder what his teeth were like?

Posted by: PJ at November 7, 2004 at 05:47 AM

Ask and you shall receive:
History of Churchill's teeth.

Posted by: Donnah at November 7, 2004 at 06:15 AM

PJ,

All of us here have great affection for Brits and don't really blame your country for The Guardian's promiscuous stupidity or believe you have a national smile crisis that's any of our business. We alll have our politically and cosmetically challenged.

Your food, OTOH...

Posted by: A at November 7, 2004 at 06:27 AM

A, I like British fish and chip!!!! :-)

Posted by: The Real JeffS at November 7, 2004 at 06:33 AM

Anyone done the maths? 59.6m Brits and 31.6k dentisits means that each dentist has 1,886 patients.

Charge each one 100 quid per year (pretty light on for two dental visits per year) and you have an 188,000 quid job.

Not bad. With all the yellow teeth in Britain the cavities must be horendous. Good career choice. Imagine the bad breath!

Posted by: TN at November 7, 2004 at 06:38 AM

Sure, The Real JeffS, fish and chips are great. Do you eat yours after the kidney pie and before the spotted d*** suet pudding?

Still love England, though. Antiquing is more fun than eating, anyway.

Posted by: A at November 7, 2004 at 06:55 AM

It was in response to the Guardians "let's go and slap all the people who voted for Bush".

They're going to be slappin' for a while!

Posted by: Quentin George at November 7, 2004 at 07:02 AM

"But, to repeat, the Guardian does not speak for anyone besides its self-important, patronising, socialistic staff. I repeat my advice to read Churchill to understand the temper of these islands - I wonder what his teeth were like?"

Well, if it was an Italian paper we'd be making garlic jokes or Mafia jokes or something. Ya use what ya got. It's like people back in '90-whatever who got mad at Al Franken for mocking fat people. He wasn't mocking fat people, he was mocking Limbaugh and using the most obvious shortcut. (Sorry to reference Franken approvingly, everybody.)

Also, the royal family is a bunch of sisterfuckers.

Posted by: Jim Treacher at November 7, 2004 at 07:07 AM

"War Is Not the Answer But Slapping and Shoving Is"

Posted by: A at November 7, 2004 at 07:07 AM

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but according to the 2004 CIA World Factbook, the population of the UK is 60,270,708 (July 2004 est.)

CIA World Factbook - UK

And if you want to take a look at the 2003 Rankings, you'll note that Mr. Mandate didn't get more votes than the populations of France, Germany or Russia either. . . .

Posted by: Joshua Adelman at November 7, 2004 at 08:25 AM

Okay, so they have 619,446 more. How many soccer riots would it take to even it up?

Posted by: Jim Treacher at November 7, 2004 at 08:29 AM

I won't bash the English for their lack of access to modern dental care. However, It's open season on their cuisine.

I was in England in the early 80's, Oxford to be precise. A newly opened restuarant was proudly displaying an offering of Chicago Style American Pizza. Having not been able to enjoy the repast that is the young American male's primary source of nutrients for several months I promptly walked inside and took them up on the offer. My curiosity peaked when after ordering the pizza the waiter proceeded to set the table with a knife and spoon. Then the pizza arrived.


Posted by: Joe Bagadonuts at November 7, 2004 at 08:58 AM

Treacher's supposed to have the weekend off!

I think one problem is that we don't have the competing tabloids and broadsheets like England does. So when we hear that a "British Newspaper" is doing this, and we recognize the name of it, we assume it's their New York Times.

Posted by: Cridland at November 7, 2004 at 09:29 AM

The food ... well, it keeps body and soul together, after a fashion. My wife told me about a place in York that she saw, call The Great Texas Pizza Company. Its logo was a vulture wearing a ten-gallon hat and a bib. I wonder if road-kill pizza was on the menu?

Not to dispair, though: there's plenty of good Italian and Indian restaurants throughout Britain.

Oddly, the best deep-dish pizza in Chicago (IMHO) is at the Exchequer Pub on Wabash Ave. Go figure.

Posted by: Brown Line at November 7, 2004 at 09:42 AM

Joshua, the UK is different from Britain. Britain is only England, Scotland and Wales. The UK is those three plus N. Ireland plus any number of islands and territories throughout the world.

Posted by: Karol at November 7, 2004 at 09:46 AM

"I don't see it as anti-British exactly, more anti-left-wing intelligencia [sic]..."

This isn't directed at the poster quoted above, but -- goddamnit, when are we going to quit describing these sanctimonious lowbrow wankers using words like "intelligentsia" or "elites"? Damned few of them are either especially intelligent or in any other way distinguished. And they're slightly less well educated on average than conservative voters. So what gives?

Posted by: Mike at November 7, 2004 at 09:52 AM

I think one problem is that we don't have the competing tabloids and broadsheets like England does. So when we hear that a "British Newspaper" is doing this, and we recognize the name of it, we assume it's their New York Times.

Yes, Cridland, those British tabloids may not be newspapers "of record", but does the US have widely distributed papers that crudely slam other countries in toto, especially Coalition allies? What ever happened to British manners, civility and steadfastness? Now we have "59 million dumb" Yanks having to show the Brits how to keep a stiff upper lip in the face of not only terrorist threat from our enemies but slur and slander from our putative friends.

Haven't heard about any outrage from the the establishment press over there. And, then, there's the BBC which isn't tabloid, but which relentlessly trashes Bush and Americans in an insufferably sniffy way that is broadcast across the globe 24/7. Even worse.

Posted by: A at November 7, 2004 at 10:30 AM

>Anyone done the maths?

Jeez TN, I did the maths in the second comment. Don't you read 'em?

Posted by: Scott Campbell at Blithering Bunny at November 7, 2004 at 10:39 AM

If you throw the bad teeth line at the British they'll just return serve with the drooling lardbutt accusation, and nothing will have been achieved except to add to the vast fund of ill-will in the world and to widen still further the circle of those who dislike America.

Posted by: Harry Hutton at November 7, 2004 at 10:46 AM

Britain is a great nation and they know their duty when it is called for. The BBC had a special Question Time from Miami before the American election and surprisingly they invited Richard Littlejohn from the Sun, who made the valid point that people and parties in elected office come and go, but the enduring strength of the Anglo-American partnership remains.The Guardian is a poor yardstick by which to measure Britain's commitment to seeing through the task at hand.

Moreover as an Australian Tory I also have great affection for the deep kinship between the UK and Australia.

Posted by: Alex at November 7, 2004 at 11:08 AM

Alex,

It isn't just The Guardian, tabloids and the BBC. Even Tony Blair's wife had to make known her anti-Bush wishes for our election. I cannot imagine Laura offering such undercutting in kind.

Harry mentioned something about our needing to take care about adding "to the vast fund of ill will" and he's right, but

We in America were savagely attacked on 9/11, and our reaction was to oust cruel and bloody regimes in Afghanistan and Iraq and offer democracy and new and enhanced infrastructure to their peoples for their future prosperity. We did this despite the UN's intransigence and obstructionism and with stalwart allies' help. Still, Americans have paid and will pay the steepest price in blood, toil and funding. Are we to understand that we are not accepting the headline splashing gutter trashing from allies with good grace? Shame on us. Maybe those Guardian peaceable types should come over and slap and shake us really hard, after all

Posted by: A at November 7, 2004 at 11:21 AM

Given those numbers, maybe it would be more cost-effective to send one Bush voter each over to the UK to bitchslap a Guardian reader. Hell, send two each, we can spare them and with our healthy, growing economy (ask your father what that's like, Eurokids) we can afford the plane tickets...

Posted by: richard mcenroe at November 7, 2004 at 12:20 PM

Joe Bagadonuts I was staying in a hotel off Gloucester Road once and the Brits had actually opened a "genuine Texas BBQ restaurant" Hadda see this. Plank longhouse decor inside, check. Obscure ranching and farming implements stuck on the walls, check. Canned Houston radio station on the sound system, check. Even served a pretty good-size rack of ribs.

Then the waitress set out the finger bowls. I tried to explain to them why real BBQ eaters wore denim, but my suggestions were not well received...

Posted by: slayerdaddy:bravo at November 7, 2004 at 12:31 PM

Meanwhile, Andrew Sullivan has an exclusive - the first Bush voters (2004) who regret voting for Bush!!! Somebody at the NY Times could get fired for getting scopped on this. Is Greg Packer in a coma or something?

Posted by: Buzz Crutcher at November 7, 2004 at 12:40 PM

Slayerdaddy: a lot of barbecue restaurants here pass out fingerbowls. They aren't fancy: usually they're nothing more than plastic cups full of warm water, and they also provide those little packets of lemon-scented "moist towellettes".

As for the rest of you engaged in your little "Brits don't suck stop being mean yes they do greenteeth ickyfood!" hissy fit, don't make me come over there with my belt. Besides, I've got bad teeth and I'm fat: I'm the one that should be mad at all of you. ;p

Posted by: Andrea Harris at November 7, 2004 at 01:19 PM

Yes, Cridland, those British tabloids may not be newspapers "of record", but does the US have widely distributed papers that crudely slam other countries in toto, especially Coalition allies?

You mean the New York Times?

Posted by: Pixy Misa at November 7, 2004 at 01:35 PM

Andrea Finger bowls? You folks goin' all Santa Fe on us?

Posted by: richard mcenroe at November 7, 2004 at 01:39 PM

I do like a nice pasty with my stout tho... and if you want to stretch your eyes at English food, order a copy of A Taste of Essex at Amazon.com...

Posted by: richard mcenroe at November 7, 2004 at 01:42 PM

Pixy,

Don't remember any NYT headline after Howard's re-election calling most Australians d-u-m-b, but admittedly that fact must have been deftly woven into the text somewhere.

Posted by: A at November 7, 2004 at 01:45 PM

The barbecue restaurant in Miami that we used to go to when I was a kid (and this was quite some time ago -- Miami was still largely Hicksville except on the Beach, which was where old people went to die) used fingerbowls right up until I left the city a few years back. So if you ask me Santa Fe copied us.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at November 7, 2004 at 02:12 PM

The BeaTles...
THANK YOU ENGLAND!!!

Posted by: guinsPen at November 7, 2004 at 02:33 PM

"donnah,"
top shelf link!
a+
gold star

Posted by: guinsPen at November 7, 2004 at 02:40 PM

Fallujah insurgents besieged by US and Iraqi troops have invited journalists to "embed" with them to report their side of the war.

Timmy Boy, the every so tough Journalist has now been given an invitation to show how tough he really is.

I'm sure the Bulletin will stump up your airfare, a flak jacket and maybe a pair of steel capped boots.

This has got to be the opportunity Tim has been looking forward to. A real chance to break into interntional journalism and bring us the truth.

Come on Tim, Embed today. Or are you just a two dollar blogger in ya PJs.

Posted by: timthetoughjournalist at November 7, 2004 at 03:38 PM

Maybe Andrea is right - maybe I am a little jumpy. But don't forget, we are on the frontline of freedom here, in a way that America and Australia, with their huge oceans, aren't. America is thousands of miles from its nearest powerful terroristic enemy. We are twenty miles away from ours (Rainbow Warrior anyone?). America is confident in its own sovereignty, while Tony Blair is busy selling ours to that very enemy through the EU. And, while Britain righly gives all help to America in its fight against terror, Clinton's America gave a visa to a UK terrorist (despite promising not to).

Incidentally, I read the CIA Factbook entry, and there are some (small) errors in it, so I wouldn't count on it as a source necessarily. But let's face it, it's not that surprising that we don't know Britain's population to within a million, given the shambolic farce of Labour's immigration policy (see for instance http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3813903.stm).

On a more cheerful, off-topic note - ever wondered what would happen if a fireworks factory exploded? Try http://www.big-boys.com/articles/fireworkfactory.html. The end is awesome.

Posted by: PJ at November 7, 2004 at 04:20 PM

Brown Line: Re Pizza: And the best pizza in the world comes from Australia.

Australia can boast being home to the best gourmet pizza in the world, after taking on the rest of the globe at the America's Plate competition in New York, and coming out on top.
The double team of Theo Kalogeracos from Mundaring in WA, and Andy Parisi of La Trattoria restaurant in Adelaide, concocted a bewildering array of recipes to beat the best of the rest, including teams from Italy, the USA, France and New Zealand.
The America's Plate competition - known as the America's Cup of pizza - has been traditionally held for more than a century between Italy and America, but for the first time this year other countries were allowed to enter.

Posted by: Alan E Brain at November 7, 2004 at 04:22 PM

Now that Howard and Bush have been re-elected, it seems the trolls are back to their original screeds: vaguely homo-erotic love poetry to Tim, and endless questions about his manhood.

'Ain't love grand?

Posted by: Quentin George at November 7, 2004 at 04:28 PM

Isn't "getting embedded" with insurgents just Arabic slang for "getting beheaded"? Tim might want to check with a translator first.

Posted by: A at November 7, 2004 at 04:51 PM

And not encourage the insurgents to Google him.

Posted by: A at November 7, 2004 at 05:08 PM

Wow, those insurgents sure know who their friends are, huh?

Posted by: Sortelli at November 7, 2004 at 05:43 PM

You have got to be nuts to want to embed with the terrorist neck cutters. First, it's a ready supply of willing victims. Second, hang out with the future targets of the US Marine Corps? What kind of crack is that troll smoking, anyway? There are less painful ways of committing suicide.

Posted by: Mr. Blue at November 7, 2004 at 06:19 PM

Joshua, the UK is different from Britain. Britain is only England, Scotland and Wales. The UK is those three plus N. Ireland plus any number of islands and territories throughout the world.

Posted by: Karol at November 7, 2004 at 09:46 AM

You're a twit, Karol.

Britain and UK are both shorthand for "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".

Great Britain is the island which is divided between Scotland, Wales and England.

It should be noted that the Isle of Man, and the Channel Islands are NOT part of the UK, nor are they members of the European Union.

The British Commonwealth is remains of what was once called the British Empire, all those countries, territories, &c., scattered around the world.

Posted by: peggy sue at November 7, 2004 at 06:40 PM

"Scott Campbell at Blithering Bunny", Maaate I'm sorry didn't see your stuff man. You didn't do the analysis in the same way I did. (How's that for crap?)

The only thing you prove is that the NHS sucks big time. But guess what, Latham wanted to copy it but ogt booted out! Read Theordore Dalrymple (?spelling).

Sunday night and I'm pretty pissed so if this doesn't make sense I don't give a f... Got CCR playing in the background. (John Fogarty what a wanker supporting Kerry but man could he write a great song.)

Posted by: TN at November 7, 2004 at 08:10 PM

"Treacher's supposed to have the weekend off!"

Well, I ran out of heroin and cocaine, so this is all I got.

"If you throw the bad teeth line at the British they'll just return serve with the drooling lardbutt accusation, and nothing will have been achieved except to add to the vast fund of ill-will in the world and to widen still further the circle of those who dislike America."

Oh well!

Posted by: Jim Treacher at November 7, 2004 at 09:29 PM

PJ?

"But don't forget, we are on the frontline of freedom here, in a way that America and Australia, with their huge oceans, aren't."

I see you've forgotten Bali. Indonesia isn't exactly that far from Australia, "huge ocean" or no. And... September 11th? "Huge oceans" aren't much of a barrier to terrorists already living in your country.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at November 7, 2004 at 11:53 PM

Donnah:

Ask and you shall receive:
History of Churchill's teeth.
God, I love the Internet! :-D

Posted by: Barbara Skolaut at November 8, 2004 at 12:56 AM

Andrea -

I never claimed they were. Everybody in the world is vulnerable to a sudden terrorist attack at any time.

But Britain is also much closer to threats from serious armed forces - a different threat than isolated terrorist strikes - than America or Australia are. 60 years ago, German planes were bombing London. German long-range guns were pounding Dover. German planes never reached New York. Only 15 years ago, a massive Soviet thrust through Germany and France to the Channel ports was still a serious possibility. And then the Communists would have been only twenty miles away. If we'd had the incredibly foolish Channel Tunnel then, who knows what could have happened? And who knows what threats the next decade or two will bring? With our American and Australian and Canadian and Kiwi friends helping as they so often have in the past, I am confident we can meet any challenges. But serious armed forces haven't menaced the mainland US in living memory.

Oh, yeah, another reason this British conservative is more stressed than his American or Australian counterparts, who are rightly basking in the glow of victory, is that America and Australia have sensible, if not exactly flawless, conservative governments, whereas we have a socialist government, which Americans would put up with for just as long as it took them to reach for their guns.

I'm not quite sure why I'm mentioning all this in response to jokes about Britain's alleged bad teeth (mine are flawless, btw), so I'll stop now.

Posted by: PJ at November 8, 2004 at 01:08 AM

Britain isn't as friendly to the U.S. as it was in years past, but the same can be said of Americans about themselves. I'll always love the UK. But as an American of late middle age, accustomed to being reviled abroad, it is always harder to be villified by family members.

What offends me most about the things said about us by some Britains (Lefties, mostly), is that they exhibit all the vile qualities and condescension of the class they replaced, but none of the courage, patriotism and willingess to sacrifice.

The meritocracy has produced a cheap, hollow and bogus replica of the hereditary aristocracy both here and elsewhere in The West, and we're not better off because of it.


Posted by: Crazy Chester at November 8, 2004 at 01:14 AM

Actually, I spent two weeks in England this September, staying with a friend's family in the Midlands. What I found really funny was that I'd be in this tiny village in a store or pub and people would come up to me, verify that I was, in fact, an American, and they'd then tell me how important it is that I get back in time to vote. Not one of these fine folks bothered to ask which way I was voting, they just assumed that I had to be a Kerry supporter since I had shoes on and wasn't wearing bib overalls.

However, I feel obligated to weigh in on the merits of English cuisine since the family I was staying with turned out some absolutely delicious dishes while I was there. Nothing fancy, just some damned fine lamb chops and such, but honor forbid me from letting it go undefended.

Posted by: Alex at November 8, 2004 at 03:00 AM

Semi-related: based on vote totals from CNN, almost 25 million of Bush's votes, or over 40% of his vote total, came from states that Kerry won. (The numbers I got were 24,840,616 and 41.8%.) If MN, WI, IL, and MI are taken out, it's a much less impressive 29.3%, but the point stands. Even that means almost a full third of Bush's overall vote total came from the coastal states. Maybe the middle of the country won Bush the election, but there were plenty of us from even the "bluest" states who voted for him...

Posted by: Jay at November 8, 2004 at 03:34 AM

Jay -

Why are you spoiling the fun? It's so much easier and more fun for both sides to paint each other in stereotypes and then rail against them. It saves a lot of thought and endless qualifications and dithering. Pansy liberal intellectuals and minorities against redneck white trash - that's the way it was and is.

Posted by: PJ at November 8, 2004 at 03:48 AM

I'm in a blue state, but I voted for Bush. So I'm glad Jay dug out those numbers. I don't feel so alone! Maybe there should be blue, red, and purple states, eh?

Thanks, Jay!

Posted by: The Real JeffS at November 8, 2004 at 04:06 AM

Great Britain is the island which is divided between Scotland, Wales and England

The Island containing England, Scotland and wales is called "Great Britain" rather than simply "Britain", even though it's taken from the Roman name "Britannia".

However the "Great" isn't just some misplaced affectation of the Brits, it's to contrast it with "Little Britain", or what in English is known as "Brittany", a region of France colonised by the Britons after the fall of Rome. Even the French, not famous for their fondness of England refer to the two places as "Grande Bretagne" and "Petit Bretagne", and even the French can't be wrong all the time.

PJ is being a little defensive I think. We're all at risk of terrorism however close to France we live, but I do slightly envy the Americans and the Aussies their conservative parties. For reasons I can't begin to understand Michael Howard has just sniffily (and pointedly) refused to congratulate Bush on his win. What planet is he on?

Posted by: James Hamilton, UK at November 8, 2004 at 04:53 AM

Dentist listings in MI vs population.

That's about twice as many percapita if yellowpage listings are a good estimate of the number of dentists ( me thinks it might fall a bit short).

Posted by: aaron at November 8, 2004 at 05:22 AM

As a Brit myself, I feel honourbound to defend my countrymen:

Firstly, 'green teeth' is an old and useless stereotype. Britain is, in fact, not filled with stump-toothed smelly-breath types, much in the same way that America is not full of fat people who wear Hawaian shirts and Bermuda shorts, and Austrailia is not full of men with knee-high socks and braces saying "throw another one on the baaaaaaaarbie Sheila." Tut tut, folks, you can do better than sterotyping.

Secondly, I challenge anybody to eat my Mum's cooking and not think it's the best in the world.

So back off!

Posted by: Steve at November 8, 2004 at 06:04 AM

To be fair, the UK has about the same number of dentists per individual as the US (1:1900 in Britain vs. 1:1700 in the US).

Posted by: Robin Goodfellow at November 8, 2004 at 06:17 AM

You're right about how we shouldn't stereotype, Steve, but what else would you expect from 59 million dumb Americans?!

Posted by: A at November 8, 2004 at 06:30 AM

"...America is not full of fat people who wear Hawaian shirts and Bermuda shorts..."

For the record, men in beer tee shirts and bermudas make up a full 50% of the adults residing in my household.

Otherwise, I second Steve's comment.

Posted by: Mike at November 8, 2004 at 06:34 AM


And here I was all ready to offer to make England our 51st state.

Posted by: Walter E. Wallis at November 8, 2004 at 06:58 AM

If I'm ever given a straight choice between being the 51st state of the United States of America or the 25th State of the United States of Europe, I'm throwing my lot in with you gun totin' lard arses any day.

Posted by: James Hamilton, UK at November 8, 2004 at 07:27 AM

Hey! Hawaiian shirts are perfect for concealing our illegal handguns when we go out to bars...

Posted by: richard mcenroe at November 8, 2004 at 07:28 AM

....but those bermuda shorts are terrible! Gawd, all those ugly male legs!

Besides, how can I have an ankle holster with short pants? Practicality demands that we outlaw shorts for me.

Posted by: The Real JeffS at November 8, 2004 at 07:39 AM

Ahem. I meant to say....

"shorts for men."

Posted by: The Real JeffS at November 8, 2004 at 07:40 AM

Preview is your friend @ Real Jeffs

Er... what is all this about dentists & green teeth the past few days? I thought the British were more commonly known as "soap dodgers" (such & such is a "dry as an Englishman's towel" etc etc)

Posted by: steve at the pub at November 8, 2004 at 07:52 AM

This thread started on statistical synchronicities, so can I offer this one:
- fictional number of Iraqis killed by Coalition troops: 100,000
- actual number of foetuses aborted in Australia each year: 100,000

Compare and contrast the use made of these two statistics in the Oz media. (I'm pro-choice, BTW).

Posted by: cuckoo at November 8, 2004 at 07:55 AM

Actually, Robin Goodfellow, I think it's statistically more favorable for Britain, because there are fewer teeth.

Posted by: Crazy Chester at November 8, 2004 at 08:05 AM

Chester:

Not only that, availability of dental care tells us nothing about usage. It's like a gun, or lots of guns, or availability of exercise equipment and weight loss practitioners. Usage is what matters.

Posted by: Gannymede at November 8, 2004 at 08:10 AM

The Real Jeff S Y'orter go with a belly-band holster anyway. If a man accosts you on the street and you suddenly start bending over, it could be misconstrued...

Of course, suddenly shoving your hand down your pants might not be such an improvement...

Posted by: richard mcenroe at November 8, 2004 at 08:15 AM

That's why I prefer open carry. There's no doubt whatsoever as to my intentions.

Posted by: The Real JeffS at November 8, 2004 at 08:24 AM

Dammed, read Steyn.

href=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/11/07/do0704.xml

Steyn and Lileks.

As we yahoos say down here in L.A. (that's Lower Alabama for you smart fellas), them boys can sure 'nuff write real good.

I likes to read them while eating my possum pie.

SMG

Posted by: SteveMG at November 8, 2004 at 08:34 AM

Oh yeah, one more thing.

When you say LA, it now means Lower Alabama. NOT Los Angeles. We own the letters now. Get your own.

Got it??

SMG

Posted by: SteveMG at November 8, 2004 at 08:49 AM

BTW, I think the fundamental difference between Left and Right is summed up by the fact that the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy calls itself that in jest, while the Reality-Based Community is apparently serious about their moniker.

Talk about having fallen for your own hype.

Posted by: PW at November 8, 2004 at 08:51 AM

Hrmm, that was supposed to go into the previous thread...oh well.

Posted by: PW at November 8, 2004 at 08:52 AM

It's fun to trade barbs, but seriously, the USA owes a tremendous amount to its UK roots, namely, a culture of freedom and the fighting spirit with which to defend it. Not to mention the glorious English language. Thank God for English imperialism!

Posted by: NJ Sue at November 8, 2004 at 09:07 AM

Yes, Memsahib! We do indeed!

(Just kidding. I agree all the way)

Posted by: Patel at November 8, 2004 at 09:13 AM

OK, if nobody else is going to say it then I will: British men sound lovely. Doesn't really matter what they say. In fact, sometimes I can't understand what they say and wish there were subtitles for UK movies. When I travel to England I have a fun time trying to understand my own language.

But reading British anti-American politics is different, because there is no enjoyable accent to offset the offense. Perhaps if there were an audio version of The Guardian--

Posted by: A at November 8, 2004 at 09:41 AM

Well if we're going to start making jokes about the Brits and their teeth, I'm sure they can return the compliment. However, I'm getting in first.

This one I heard from a friend in the UK: How do you define an Australian Gentleman? He is someone who offers to light his girlfriend's farts.

Posted by: Lofty at November 8, 2004 at 10:08 AM

Steve MG - so where abouts in L.A. do you hail from? My family roots go back a couple of hundred years in Eufaula, although I'm in So. Cal., now.

Posted by: Polly at November 8, 2004 at 10:24 AM

What's Australian foreplay?

Saying "Brace yerself, Sheila" first.

Posted by: James Hamilton UK at November 8, 2004 at 10:38 AM

I had previously looked at similar numbers for France - but broke it down to voting age here.

Posted by: Dan at November 8, 2004 at 10:43 AM

The number of death in Iraq is still unknown. The number 100,000 was flung around as a madeup sort of rough guess which may have been many thousands understated or over-estimated. In a game of public Chinese whispers it has become an accurate statistic.

What exactly are you choosing in being 'pro-choice', BTW?

Posted by: TN at November 8, 2004 at 11:21 AM

He's choosing to derail the thread, and if it continues I will ban the participants and close this conversation. Got it?

Posted by: Andrea Harris at November 8, 2004 at 12:22 PM

James Hamilton I thought you just listened for the footsteps as Digger took a running start...

Posted by: richard mcenroe at November 8, 2004 at 12:46 PM

Nahhh, James. Australian Foreplay is "You awake?", while forcefully elbowing female in ribs.

Posted by: Kae at November 8, 2004 at 01:03 PM

Andrea i didn't start it, I was merely responding to "Cuckoo" above. Perhaps you were asleeep when he posted?

Posted by: TN at November 8, 2004 at 01:50 PM

TN, I never said you started anything. I know who you were responding too, and I was telling him, by the device of your question, that I will not allow this thread to derail into an argument over abortion, because a) that isn't the subject of the post, and b) I've seen comment threads become hysterical chaos when that subject has been introduced. Don't be so goddamn touchy.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at November 8, 2004 at 01:57 PM

Andrea, you wouldn't know it from Tim's postings but the ab issue has become a topic of massive discussion here in Aust over the last week. You are bound to see lots more threads referring to it until the issue dies down (sorry bad, unintentional, pun). And no, I wasn't being touchy. You might recall you have banned me before. Do you ever sleep? It's 12am Monday morning on the US East Coast isn't it?

Posted by: TN at November 8, 2004 at 02:07 PM

Obviously it isn't the case that all Americans are fat and wear stupid shorts. But have you been to the International House of Pancakes? The fattest humans I have ever seen.

I'm a good-looking guy when I hang out in the International House of Pancakes.

Posted by: Harry Hutton at November 8, 2004 at 02:13 PM

LOL, Harry! That's why I don't go to IHOP....

Posted by: The Real JeffS at November 8, 2004 at 02:22 PM

That's right, TN, I wouldn't know it from Tim's posting. If Tim is interested in bringing up the topic on his own blog, then everyone is welcome to rant away in the comments to that post, should Tim ever make it. But so long as he is not, I am NOT ALLOWING AN UNRELATED THREAD TO BE DERAILED INTO A CONVERSATION ON JUST ANYTHING PEOPLE FEEL LIKE BRINGING UP, I don't care if it is the number one topic on all the tv screens, newspaper front pages, and lips in Australia. If you are not in agreement with this policy, then you are free to get your own blog.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at November 8, 2004 at 02:30 PM

And by the way, TN, it is 11:30 pm on the East Coast, which is early to me. And thanks for making me regret unbanning you. That can be remedied, by the way, by banning you again. Continue to be an officious little prick and I will.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at November 8, 2004 at 02:32 PM

Going back to when we assaulted the Guardian with our love letters, that was the first time I had ever read anything about the Brits and their yellow, rotting, puss-filled, carcase-smelling teeth. Where did the teeth issue come from?

Posted by: Lofty at November 8, 2004 at 02:51 PM

I dunno, Lofty. Any of the British women I ever met were hot, with great smiles.

Now, Americans wearing Aloha shirts and Bermuda shorts, that I testify to....

Posted by: The Real JeffS at November 8, 2004 at 03:21 PM

As I yank living in Northern Ireland for 10 years I've just got to take exception to that 'we've been savaged by 9/11 and that has the world done for us' comment. Trust me, I can match your terrorism stories. I can talk about family with permanent injuries, sitting down to Christmas dinner with a man who is alive only because the AK-47 jammed when the paramilitaries came, other friends told to vary their movents because they have been found on death lists. I used to be able to tell the difference between an bombing and a controlled explosion by the feel of the shockwave. And I can ask what did America do to help that situation? It wasn't just the visas to Sinn Fein, it was the money in coffers to NORAID. Don't assume I am supporting a God-fearing Ulster. I've seen too many people hurt on either side. And those terrorists today? Running drugs and prostitutes, carrying off some serious robberies, still terrorising their own streets. Thanks for all the financial and emotional support USA.

Posted by: Kate at November 8, 2004 at 07:03 PM

See now, I've just read posts from Kae and Lofty (whom I have good reason to believe are Australian) and richard mcenroe (whom I suspect is Australian) and they are all poking muck at Australians. We do that.

I've also read "James Hamilton UK"'s post in which he also pokes muck at Australians. We don't mind that because we poke muck at Poms and because we're glad we live in Oz rather than that cold, dark, dank Pommy place where they live. In fact, poking muck at Poms is next thing to a national sport. Some Poms don't like it and then we call them "whingeing Poms" or "bloody whingeing Poms" or "whingeing bloody unwashed Poms" or even "whingeing, un-bloody-washed Poms with bad teeth". That's just the way it is in families, particularly, I suppose, when you've never been in a serious fight with members of the branch that's poking muck at you. So I'm just thinking that maybe you Yanks, having been in a shooting war with the Brits and having cast of all ties etc, might not completely understand that Australian Pommy bashing is more affectionate teasing than actual dislike.

Posted by: Janice at November 8, 2004 at 08:45 PM

That's "cast off all ties".

Posted by: Janice at November 8, 2004 at 08:50 PM

I was given the answer as to why Aussie men cry during sex.

It's the pepper spray.

Posted by: Crazy Chester at November 8, 2004 at 11:11 PM

Enough with the Brit dental jokes. After all, the toothbrush is a British invention. If it had been invented elsewhere, it would have been called a teethbrush.

Posted by: Ernie G at November 9, 2004 at 01:29 AM

Can we please retire that joke before it crumbles to dust?

Posted by: Andrea Harris at November 9, 2004 at 02:00 AM

Time for some love, people:

http://www.samizdata.net/blog/archives/001943.html

Posted by: Andrew at November 9, 2004 at 02:53 AM

you Yanks ... might not completely understand that Australian Pommy bashing is more affectionate teasing than actual dislike.

I figured that out, Janice. Those jokes sounded a lot like some of the "regional slams" we exchange here in the US of A, such as:

Why does do cowboys wear huge belt buckles? It's a tombstone for a dead dick.

Palm Beach County motto: We put the "duh" in Florida.

Did you hear about the New 3 Million Dollar West Virginia State Lottery? You gets 3 dollars a year for a million years.

d:-P

Posted by: The Real JeffS at November 9, 2004 at 05:50 AM

Andrew,
thank you.

Posted by: Old Grouch at November 9, 2004 at 06:01 AM

The Guardian isn't really socialist. It's a direct route into the heart of the handwringing Islington champagne socialists and the soft-left media luvvies.

These are decent but misguided people. They don't stand on picket lines, but feel guilty that they weren't there, so they make up for it with an instinctive opposition to the police. In their worldview, criminals are misunderstood and socially disadvantaged, and require counselling and social workers.

They can solve all the problems in their insular, privileged world with a chat around a coffee table and a focus group, and they don't really understand that the rest of the world won't always sit around a table with them and share its feelings.

They have a natural sympathy for the terrorist or the seperatist, because they see him as a victim of police brutality. They will support any one for any reason if he makes a stand against the "fat cats" of the corporate West, not because of any solidarity with the working classes or anything like that, but because they feel guilty that they're well off when others are starving, and can't understand why not everyone with money feels guilty about it.

Posted by: Dave at November 9, 2004 at 06:53 AM

JeffS, totally agree with you about British women. The one's I've met have been hot and terrific to be around...not a rotten tooth to be found anywhere. Must be just the blokes over there! Yep, and you can't beat Brit fish and chips, especially on a cold and miserable day.

Janice is right about us giving everyone a bashing through our jokes or sayings, particularly ourselves and loved ones.

"The wise man chooses a partner who is attractive not only to himself, but to the neighbourhood mosquitoes as well."

Posted by: Lofty at November 9, 2004 at 07:42 AM

Dave:

They're decent but misguided? You describe a self-loathing, deluded, arrogant, self-regarding and, not to say stupid, gaggle of epicene toffs.

I wouldn't give you two cents for all of them combined, and wouldn't sit down at a table with a single one of them in pursuit of their feelings.

This group is an atavistic survival of the age when the painted scaffold was reserved for the swells.

Posted by: Rhod at November 9, 2004 at 08:38 AM

Lofty, how about eating fish 'n' chips with a hot British wench on a cold and miserable day? Sounds like a winning combination to me!!!

Posted by: The Real JeffS at November 9, 2004 at 10:40 AM

JeffS,sounds good to me but I think my wife would have a few words to say on the subject!

Beauty! Now I can't get the fish 'n' chip scenario out of my mind. Thanks JeffS, but please stop pulling my strings. I can't keep using the excuse that "I'm just a puppet" when I get in strife with the missus.

I'm not going to think anymore about those smiling long legged lo......See what you've done! Stuffed my mind! I'm going to another post and don't follow me!

Posted by: Lofty at November 9, 2004 at 01:21 PM

[Hey, you know what? The comment that was here, an unprovoked personal attack on me, has been removed and the commenter has been banned! Yay! The Management.]

Posted by: TN at November 9, 2004 at 04:01 PM

With a ratio of something like 1900:1, you would think those dentists would be booked solid through the next US Presidential election. But something tells me that many of them are living on the public dole.

Posted by: KBiel at November 10, 2004 at 03:42 AM