October 06, 2004
DEBATE RATED
Mark Steyn calls it for Cheney:
Classic Daddy Party performance, underlined by Edwards' closing with his maudlin generic hardscrabble vignettes. Simply by being who he is, Cheney made the other guy look a lightweight. Edwards had one good trick: he worked the format better - using the 30-second add-ons for his sharpest and best rehearsed jabs and leaving Cheney no time for rebuttal. That aside, I don't agree with Andrew Sullivan on much these days, but I'm with him on this: Cheney is way sexier than Edwards, who seems cheesier and emptier every time I see him.
Instapundit rounds up opinions, generally favouring Cheney, although Hugh Hewitt warns against snap judgments. Guess we’ll have to wait and see how many children were frightened.
Oh, by the way: Cheney lied! He and Edwards stood side-by-side!
Posted by Tim Blair at October 6, 2004 04:49 PMOh, by the way: Cheney lied! He and Edwards stood side-by-side!Like Lloyd Bentson's "You're no JFK" throw-away line in 1988, Cheney's was a sarcastic joke, but some people (like George Soros' groom of the stool, Duncan Black) have no sense of humor. Poor saps. Posted by: Spiny Norman at October 6, 2004 at 04:58 PM
Maybe it was because I just found a box of 25-year-old Star Wars toys, but one of the first things to pop into my head (not necessarily exactly verbatim, but oh well): Yoda, to Luke:"900 years old am I. Question me, do you?"
And just like Luke, Edwards done got bitchslapped by the Master.
Posted by: Just a simple Montana boy at October 6, 2004 at 05:44 PMThe Kerry campaign is saying Cheney met Edwards twice, once at the prayer meeting and once when Libby Dole was getting sworn into the Senate. Neither of these are regular sessions of the Senate -- so in four years he has never attended a Tuesday session when Cheney was there.
Interestingly Edwards let this go unchallenged during the debate, so the meetings must not have been memorable.
The campaign doth protest too much -- by trying to refute the statement they only reinforce Cheney's point by highlighting the fact that Senator Gone is never where he is supposed to be!
I do admire Kos and his reader's childlike glee at catching Cheney in this 'lie' and thinking that it helps their guy.
Kos reader: Woohoo, Cheney lied! Liar liar pants on fire! We caught him! The election is ours!
Bush campaign: You're right. VP Cheney has had two brief encounters with Sen Edwards, but never in Senate chambers were he is paid and where the people of his state elected him to be.
Kos reader: Oh yeah? Well, um, Halliburton!
Bush campaign: Fake but accurate baby, fake but accurate.
No one in the real world can skip their job 70% of the time and expect to keep their job. Yet these Democrat “in-touch-with-the-common-man-like-no-Republican” candidates not only keep their jobs after ignoring their responsibilities for years, they expect to be promoted to the most powerful position on the planet!
Posted by: perfectsense at October 6, 2004 at 08:15 PMApparantly,Edwards didn't remember these so called meetings.
Posted by: julie at October 6, 2004 at 09:09 PMMan, I usually know better than to read anything on Atrios' blog, but the few times I've ventured there have been mind-boggling displays of delusion.
Posted by: Sortelli at October 6, 2004 at 09:34 PMthere's no way i'll sleep better if that pretty boy is a heartbeat away...mind you, considering whose heart we'd be talking about in that instance my sleep would be pretty crappy to begin with.
Posted by: Mr. Bingley at October 6, 2004 at 10:02 PMi found it confusing, the root of which may lie in my natural state of unnuancedness, when the Breck Boy scoffed at Darth Cheney that "al-qaeda is in 63 countries: are you going to invade them all?" and then 5 minutes later said that "John Kerry and I will hunt down and kill terrorists where ever they are."
but maybe it's just me.
Posted by: Mr. Bingley at October 6, 2004 at 10:12 PMThis sounds like a bit of a set-up on Cheney's part.
When asked about the "lie", he will be able to say (truthfully or untruthfully) "well, gee, I don't remember those short meetings, but I would have remembered meeting him at the regular meetings at our normal job, in the Senate. I guess they are admitting that he's been absent at those."
I really don't think the Kerry campaign wants to go there, but I hope they do.
Posted by: TomB at October 6, 2004 at 10:14 PMWell, apparently Edwards didn't consider it a meeting either, because he never refuted Cheney's claim. How easy would it have been to say, "Hey, old man, don't you remember we met at that prayer breakfast?"
Posted by: R C Dean at October 7, 2004 at 12:35 AMTurns out that Edwards's Halliburton figures were off too:
Edwards referred to $7.5 billion which "was going to a no-bid contract for Halliburton." That contract was, in fact, competitively bid. Halliburton's no-bid contract — from March 2003 — was for $2.5 billion to repair Iraq's oil infrastructure.
See? Only 2.5 billion dollars.
Posted by: Angie Schultz at October 7, 2004 at 12:45 AM
What is John Edwards doing going to prayer breakfasts anyway?
Is he some sort of dangerous extremist fundamentalist Christian zealot with an agenda to tear down the wall of separation between church and state?
If I were still a liberal Democrat, I'd be very troubled and scared and chilled and feeling lots of other negative emotions over someone else's religiosity.
Posted by: JDB at October 7, 2004 at 01:05 AMCould anyone hold their lunch long enough to actually read some of the pithy comments on that HaloScan thread? This one is a beaut:
MSNBC is soooo in the tank for Cheney...it is sickening...help write to them and complain please....
Holy crap, Batman. MSNBC called it like it was for the first time on record, and moonbats are wringing hankies and writing letters. Not to worry tho. Since first thing this morning, the CNBC online poll had Edwards out ahead 61% to 39%. Even the Squawkback morning crew was commenting 'that doesn't look right'.
Posted by: tree hugging sister at October 7, 2004 at 01:38 AMZarg, Flayer of Nebulae sees that his plan is working.
Posted by: Zarg, Flayer of Nebulae at October 7, 2004 at 01:42 AMWhy would Edwards want to give up this job?
You can be absent 70% of the time your job description requires you to do something. (Voting)
You can keep extra campaign funds.
You get fantastic retirement benefits regular citizens can never receive.
You can vote yourself a payraise.
Free government travel whenever/wherever you want to go on "fact finding missions".
Edwards complains that America has suffered 90% of all the casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan, and mere moments later promises that he'll never outsource America's security.
Never mind the clear insult directed toward our allies - that their contributions and sacrifices constitute "outsourcing." Which is it, senator? Does America continue to do the heavy lifting, or do we "outsource"?
The more these people say, the less coherent they sound.
Posted by: Butch at October 7, 2004 at 04:37 AMIs it really a meeting when VP Cheney has his back to Edwards and Edwards appears to be walking behind (and away from) him? Maybe Edwards whispered "hello" as he passed!
Geez, the liberals are desperate. You have to wonder why they're so excited about this...perhaps because it's the closest they could ever come to an actual "lie"?
Posted by: Pax at October 7, 2004 at 04:42 AMIt was fairly easy for Mr. Cheney to slice and dice the plastic man Edwards!
Posted by: DagneyT at October 7, 2004 at 04:59 AMThree devastating facts remain:
1. Edwards did not refute it (wouldn't you have if it were false? Of course!)
2. Edwards missed 70% of his Intelligence Committee meetings. Unrefuted.
3. Kerry missed 76% of his Intelligence Committee meetings. Unrefuted.
Posted by: Darwin Finch at October 7, 2004 at 07:16 AMThank God he will no longer be my Senator. Hopefully I won't get sued by him in his new(old) career....
Posted by: Crusader at October 7, 2004 at 07:47 AM
You know, I've met Dick Cheney twice -- and I doubt he remembers me. And I participate in the United States Senate almost as much as John Edwards has.
Cheney appears to have burped http://rhhardin.home.mindspring.com/vpburp.ram 14 seconds in, ``situat..in which,'' some sort of gas problem. This put Edwards off his game, in my opinion.
Posted by: Ron Hardin at October 7, 2004 at 11:30 AMbc:
>
> Why would Edwards want to give up this job?
If there's a job less accountable than that of U.S. Senator, it could only be that of U.S. Vice President. Preside at Senate meetings, go to ribbon-cutting ceremonies, and ask every morning how the President's doing. That's about all he's expected to do.
(As with many leadership jobs, you can do a lot more with it if you want. Cheney has; Gore didn't. I doubt very much whether Edwards would.)
cheers,
Daniel in Brookline