April 16, 2004
QUOTE OF THE WEEK
From US Lance Cpl. Ryan Christiansen, asked if he was concerned that a ceasefire would allow Saddamite forces to regroup:
"I really don't care; they're all gonna die."
Lance Cpl. Ryan Christiansen is from Chicago. Fine city.
Posted by Tim Blair at April 16, 2004 12:54 AMThis is the sort of talk that upsets our fashionably
slender European friends.
Doing anything nice for comrade Kim Il Sung's birthday?
Me and 25,000 pals will be singing "We owe our bumper crop to the leader" if you want to come along.
Posted by: Harry Hutton at April 16, 2004 at 01:37 AMI nominate Lance Cpl. Ryan Christiansen as a fitting candidate for the next President of the United States. He can sure think quicker on his feet than the embarassment currently serving time in that august office:
I wish you'd have given me this written question ahead of time, so I could plan for it. I'm sure something will pop into my head here in the midst of this press conference with all the pressure of trying to come up with an answer, but it hadn't [sic] yet," he said. "I just haven't - you just put me under the spot here and maybe I'm not quick - as quick on my feet as I should be in coming up with one.
He later went onto agree that some Iraqis were having difficulty relating to US military forces:
They're not happy they're occupied. I wouldn't be happy if I were occupied either.
No danger of that, there is no one home under that ten gallon hat. Posted by: Jack Strocchi at April 16, 2004 at 01:49 AM
A sergeant from the Army's 1st Infantry Div. is also in the running today. Here's some instructions to his Humvee crews before a convoy to Najaf:
"If they shoot, kill them. Shoot them in the face." He looked at the two soldiers who would man the .50-caliber machine guns atop the two Humvees. ... "If a gunner gets hit, roll out of the way so a guy can jump up and keep it rocking."
Posted by: George at April 16, 2004 at 02:36 AM
Jack, yes, yes, we know Bush isn't a great communicator like Clinton. I can't remember who said, "Actions speak louder than words," though...
Posted by: ushie at April 16, 2004 at 02:55 AMYes, GWB's rhetorical skills leave much to be desired. But those are the breaks in the real world. It doesn't take away from the good that he's done.
Did you know that, in reality, George Patton had a high-pitched voice? It's true. Didn't help the Wehrmacht, though.
Posted by: Ash at April 16, 2004 at 03:00 AM"If he pulls a knife, you pull a gun. If he sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way, that's how you get Capone."
-- Jim Malone (Sean Connery) in The Untouchables
Posted by: iowahawk at April 16, 2004 at 03:19 AMJack, is there any evidence Washington, Jefferson or Lincoln were quick-thinking masters of the formal press conference? As Ash points out, Patton wasn't a gifted communicator, to say the least. Do we need politicians who speak in brilliantly saleable soundbites? No thanks.
Bush comes across as intelligent and human. Like Kennedy, he delegates and delegates well. He was known and praised for this when Governor of Texas. Do we really want another Oxford-trained President who knows what the meaning of 'is' is?
PS: I could have told Margo's web diarist that of course Bush uses an earpiece. It's hooked up to the secret hideout of the Elders of the Protocols of Zion. Sheesh...
The Marines, besides being fantastic warriors, are quote machines:
[begin excerpt]
Asked what chances they would have with hearts and minds of local civilians when the destruction in Fallujah is done, one infantry company commander just shrugged.
"I don't know. Rebuild?" he answered, as if thinking of it for the first time. "That's really a question for someone a lot higher up the chain than me. I'm just here to kill bad guys."
[from a San Diego County newspaper with an embedded reporter]
(http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/04/09/military/iraq/20_46_584_8_04.txt)
The Marines' newish favorite slogan - we're your best friend, or worst enemy - applies to the US as a whole. So long as it's got a real leader, anyway.
Posted by: IceCold at April 16, 2004 at 04:01 AM
"Did you know that, in reality, George Patton had a high-pitched voice? It's true. Didn't help the Wehrmacht, though."
I don't know about Patton, but I heard some scratchy old audiotapes of Teddy Roosevelt.
What did he sound like? Let me put it this way: Teddy Roosevelt, Mike Tyson, and Michael Jackson. Three men. One voice.
Posted by: Rick the Lawyer at April 16, 2004 at 04:25 AMJack, Bush gave the idiot reporter an idiotic response to match the idiocy of the question the idiot asked him.
As for Marines, thank God for 'em. None of this bull-gobar about "winning hearts and minds." Forget that gobar. Non-Muslims can't win the hearts and minds of Muslims cuz Islam teaches them to hate everyone who's not Muslim. They'll feel a not-long-lasting gratitude, but forget the gobar about hearts and minds.
Posted by: Helen at April 16, 2004 at 04:30 AMBTW, Jack, notice how GWB, in that idiotic answer he gave, played to every stereotype the press has of him. Every last one. You libs will never learn that you all are being played and suckered by a poker-playing cowboy. His wife repeatedly sells him out; she's always saying he's not as the press depicts him. Who listens to Laura? Libs don't. I thank God for it. If libs did, they might actually come up with a strategy that would force GWB to abandon his "aw shucks, I'm just a dumb ol' cowpoke" tactic. But, since GWB is a GOPer, and libs are taught from birth that GOPers are dumb, GWB will malaprop and dumb ol' cowpoke his way into another inauguration in January. Thank God for his cleverness.
Posted by: Helen at April 16, 2004 at 04:37 AMI think the new slogan is rendered as "No worse enemy; No better friend." Or maybe the other way around.
And man, that's no joke. Those men are green amphibious killing machines. God bless them!
Posted by: Greg at April 16, 2004 at 05:10 AMEvery source I've read about G. Washington also indicates that he was a bad public speaker. Maybe that should be the FIRST requirement for a presidential candidate.
Posted by: rabidfox at April 16, 2004 at 05:26 AMThere's a story that George Bush was beaten in a Texas election, in part by being portrayed as a northern elitist.
He's said to have declared at the time "I will never be out-countried again!"
I think we still see the legacy of this in his remarks today.
Posted by: Parker at April 16, 2004 at 05:39 AMIIRC, there's another slogan from the Marines: "Polite, Professional, Prepared to Kill".
Posted by: Patrick Chester at April 16, 2004 at 06:37 AMBush is a distressingly poor extemporaneous speaker. Right now, better communications skills would help. However, this constant litany that he is a dummy because he doesn't speak well is bullshit. There are plenty of brilliant people -- especially right brain types -- that aren't good speakers. Your typical engineer, computer scientist, mathematician, military strategist, etc. aren't known for being great speakers. And there is little correlation between charisma and effective leadership. There have been plenty of successes and failures among both types. Furthermore, there is no correlation with effective leadership and academically high IQ's. While a leader must have a certain level of traditional IQ to function, there have been plenty of "brilliant" people who failed utterly. To be an effective leader in business or any other field you have to have the confidence and humilty to surround yourself with people smarter than you. And you also have to be able to subsume your own ego in deference to the needs of your followers. That was the one thing that made me narrowly favor Bush over Gore. Bush didn't seem to be in it for his own ego. For Gore it was all about his own ego. Clinton was the classic case of a brilliant politician who wanted so badly to be seen as a great statesman that he never undertook anything sincerely -- everything was about how it would play -- unless of course it had to do with his, ahem, personal gratification.
Posted by: JohnPV at April 16, 2004 at 06:38 AMParker: that's interesting. Are you sure it wasn't George the Elder, GHWB? Not that I can't believe it was GWB, but I just wonder...
I remember the 1988 Bush vs. Dukakis campaign well, and GHWB just about made as much a fetish of liking country music as Kerry makes of being a 'Nam vet.
You don't generally see that of GWB.
Posted by: Ash at April 16, 2004 at 06:41 AMGWB's first election campaign, AFAIK, was in 1994 when he ran for governor and won. It has to be Poppy in the (probably apocryphal) story about being "out-countried."
Posted by: McGehee at April 16, 2004 at 07:22 AMResults count, not nuance, oratory, or cigar preferences. Results. Bush may have been an average student, has a Texas accent, and doesn't speak well, but I don't care. Results are what I want to see.
If you left wingers want a charming president that does nothing while promising everything, emigrate to France. If you want to improve relationships with the USA, take Kerry with you.
Posted by: JeffS at April 16, 2004 at 08:01 AMOf course big-brain Jack Crotchy is far better than Bush in all aspects of policy and debate.
Let's make Jack ruler of the world. Will it sate his ego? Probably not.
As for:
"I really don't care; they're all gonna die."
I'm glad to see the USMC has improved on the old slogan "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out."
OOO-RAH!
Posted by: JeffS at April 16, 2004 at 08:03 AMJack Strokey translated: "If only Bush really was like Hitler. Now there was an orator!" I wonder how easy it would be to smoothtalk Jack into handing over his PIN number.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at April 16, 2004 at 10:27 AMAnd when in Chicago, try the deep-dish pizza.
I swear, if you get through more than three slices, your heart stops, and you die.
Excellent.
Posted by: Brendan at April 16, 2004 at 11:25 AMOf course, Jack omitted what the question was that GWB wouldn't answer. It was "What do you condiser your biggest mistake since 9-11?"
Further, I'd say the reason he couldn't come up with anything was because inside his head was the real answer which should have been: "Talking to f*ckwits like you!!".
Posted by: Jimi at April 16, 2004 at 11:27 AMYou guys should back off Jack. I mean, terrorism won't be stopped in the battlefield, but in the press room. High score at "Boggle" wins!
Posted by: Jerry at April 16, 2004 at 01:44 PMCurrencyLad at April 16, 2004 at 03:26 AM asks:
Jack, is there any evidence Washington, Jefferson or Lincoln were quick-thinking masters of the formal press conference?
How about the Valedictory Speech, theDeclaration of Independence and the Gettysburg Address?
All written by the speaker, and with the exception of the Valedictory, without much preparation.
Bush is a national embarassment. Posted by: Jack Strocchi at April 16, 2004 at 03:09 PM
Jeez, Jack, you are a national embarrassment. At least pretend to be French, would you?
You want a false front? All show and no go? Mind numbing entertainment? Try Madonna or Micheal Jackson.
You want oratory? A motivational speaker to inspire the children? Like, say, Adolf Hitler? Hmmmm? Or do your standards go in a different direction? (Yep, that's a leading question!)
OK, you don't like a Texas drawl. You want a stand up comedian. You want someone with great off the cuff remarks. That's fine, it's your choice. Change the channel. Just don't expect other people to adhere to your standards. Or even agree with them.
Like me. We've had years of "Hollywood Presidents", and I'm sick of them being entertainers. If Bush can get the job done without glitz, glamor, and a saxohpne, that's fine by me. Pomp and circumstances I can live with. Pompous asses we don't need.
Posted by: JeffS at April 16, 2004 at 04:37 PMJack Strocchi at April 16, 2004 at 03:09 PM
said of the Valedictory Speech, the Declaration of Independence and the Gettysburg Address: "All written by the speaker, and with the exception of the Valedictory, without much preparation. Bush is a national embarassment."
My question still stands Jack: is there evidence that the Presidents concerned were quick-thinking masters of the formal press conference? You refer to two written documents, thus begging the question. I doubt there were reporters grandstanding at Gettysberg but if you have evidence to the contrary, write it up as a thesis. Could be fascinating: "Mr Lincoln, if I may say sir, a touching and probably destined-to-be-famous address. Yes, 'better angels' and all that. But will you now apologise for not ending this calamity sooner."
I'm not suggesting Bush ranks with Washington, Jefferson and Lincoln by the way.
Also, speaking of national embarrassments, Lincoln was ridiculed throughout the United States for his odd voice, poor dress, bumkin manners, bucolic simplicity and for what were regarded as ape-like looks. (Yes, Lincoln was put down as a presidential monkey lookalike long before Bush).
Were Jefferson President today, he would be mauled and destroyed for his private life - which really was an embarrassment.
Your more general point about the importance of marshalling language for Presidents in war-time (or any time) is a good one. Bush and his advisers and speech-writers could probably do more. "We have nothing to fear but fear itself"; "Pay and price, bear any burden"; "Mr Gorbechev, tear down that wall"; yes, words still matter.
Posted by: CurrencyLad at April 16, 2004 at 09:55 PMJack Strocchi at April 16, 2004 at 03:09 PM
said of the Valedictory Speech, the Declaration of Independence and the Gettysburg Address: "All written by the speaker, and with the exception of the Valedictory, without much preparation. Bush is a national embarassment."
My question still stands Jack: is there evidence that the Presidents concerned were quick-thinking masters of the formal press conference? You refer to two written documents, thus begging the question. I doubt there were reporters grandstanding at Gettysberg but if you have evidence to the contrary, write it up as a thesis. Could be fascinating: "Mr Lincoln, if I may say sir, a touching and probably destined-to-be-famous address. Yes, 'better angels' and all that. But will you now apologise for not ending this calamity sooner."
I'm not suggesting Bush ranks with Washington, Jefferson and Lincoln by the way.
Also, speaking of national embarrassments, Lincoln was ridiculed throughout the United States for his odd voice, poor dress, bumkin manners, bucolic simplicity and for what were regarded as ape-like looks. (Yes, Lincoln was put down as a presidential monkey lookalike long before Bush).
Were Jefferson President today, he would be mauled and destroyed for his private life - which really was an embarrassment.
Your more general point about the importance of marshalling language for Presidents in war-time (or any time) is a good one. Bush and his advisers and speech-writers could probably do more. "We have nothing to fear but fear itself"; "Pay and price, bear any burden"; "Mr Gorbechev, tear down that wall"; yes, words still matter.
Posted by: CurrencyLad at April 16, 2004 at 09:56 PMRe "better angels": That was Lincoln's first inaugural, not Gettysberg. You get my drift though.
Posted by: CurrencyLad at April 16, 2004 at 10:04 PM"Kill them all, God will recognize his own." I believe this came from the first Crusade. You know, where the French went to war with the...French?
U.S.M.C. None better.
Posted by: Doc at April 17, 2004 at 12:09 AM"Kill them all, God will recognize his own." I believe this came from the first Crusade. You know, where the French went to war with the...French?
U.S.M.C. None better.
Posted by: Doc at April 17, 2004 at 12:09 AMThe "Kill 'em all" quote did start with the French. As I said, The Marines improved on it. The French, well, are still the French.
Posted by: JeffS at April 17, 2004 at 12:52 AMI've read somewhere that Lincoln had a high squeaky voice that was rather unpleasant to listen to. He was mocked relentlessly on that, his appearance, his upbringing, his parentage, and anything else that came to mind.
The Times of London reported that Lincoln's comments at the dedication of a military cemetary were "ludicrous, dull and commonplace." The Chicago Times: "Ignorant rudeness that insults the dead; silly, flat and dishwatery utterances." The Harrisburg Patriot-Union: "We pass over the silly remarks of the president. We are willing for the sake of the nation that the veil of oblivion be dropped over them."
The cemetary was at Gettysburg.
Some people don't care what kind of lies they hear, as long as the speaker is suitably glib.
"I've read somewhere that Lincoln had a high squeaky voice that was rather unpleasant to listen to. He was mocked relentlessly on that, his appearance, his upbringing, his parentage, and anything else that came to mind."
He did have a rather high thin voice, especially in contrast to his tall stature (6'4" in those days is probably equivalent to someone 6'7" today)However, he was a very successful trial lawyer and so he certainly had the ability to win people over and his voice couldn't have been that bad.
It is true that many had a low opinion of him based on prejudices but after spending time with him they changed their views 180 degrees. General William Tecumsah Sherman had a very low opinion of him prior to going into a three day strategy meeting with Lincoln and others and later commented that he thought Lincoln one of the finest people he had ever known.I have to believe Bush comes off much better in private. He has a sense of humor and actually quite quick with droll quips according to many people who know him personally. He is not a facile bullshitter like Clinton though and I think he is so paranoid about saying anything that will be excoriated by the press and Bush haters that he is overly tight.
It is amazing what bad press Lincoln got over the Gettysburg address -- there were however some papers that praised it highly and had the insight to see it was a great statement. If you look back in history there were always people who "got it" and those who were clueless.
Posted by: JohnPV at April 17, 2004 at 02:25 AMLincoln's greatest speeches were the ones he worked on for a long time. At Gettysburg, he was asked to give an extemporaneous speech from his hotel balcony; he declined saying that he would probably say something foolish.
So, Jack? The Declaration of Independence wasn't written without much preparation? Really? I bet you think the Gettysburg Address was written on the back of an envelope during Lincoln's train trip. It takes a lot of work to write something so simple and so eloquent.
Posted by: Eric Jablow at April 17, 2004 at 07:36 AMGW, like myself, a Midlander at the time, ran for the Texas Senate in the late 80's against Democrat Kent Hance of Lubbock. He did get accused of being an Nothern Elitist, Yankee, etc.. The skinny is—farm-centric Lubbock is far larger than oil-centric Midland, that district represents many more farmers than awlmen (that's oilmen to the uninformed), Hance was a Texas Tech grad, Bush a, gasp, Yalie. GW ran a good campaign, but the odds were against him. By the way, I've had the honor of knowing Laura Bush for a long time—she is a truly fine person.
Posted by: TC at April 17, 2004 at 10:16 AMYou think Bush is stupid because he aw shucked his way around a reporters question, that if answered would have become an instant, elect John Kerry '04, commercial?
Define stupid?
Posted by: Papertiger at April 17, 2004 at 01:54 PM