Tim Blair

Um. the US TOOK OUT a dictator or two just recently. And, um, what angry young Muslim rebels died for 'their cause' in the Madrid train bombings? Thought it was a drop the backpacks and run operation

And, uh, why don't the angry old imans ever suicide themselves over 'the cause' rather than jet around on speaking engagements? Just wondering

Do they (meaning the self-flagellants) know who they're getting involved with? Oh, definitely. But you forget, there is a curious race of people in our Western society who ask for spittle in the face so they can call it rain.

Oh, PLEASE tell me that the "Wesley Centre" mentioned in the article is not a Methodist facility! As an American United Methodist, I'm embarassed enough already by the statements made by the bigwigs of the church over here (the nat'l leadership, not any local pastors). Paging Donald Sensing!

Imam Feisal said the bombing in Madrid had made his message more urgent. He said there was an endless supply of angry young Muslim rebels prepared to die for their cause and there was no sign of the attacks ending unless there was a fundamental change in the world

Not to worry about this "endless supply of angry young Muslim rebels prepared to die for their cause" = The West has an endless supply of bullets, shells, bombs, explosives, and come to think of it, nuclear firepower, to deal with each and everyone who thinks their "hatred" is rationale enough to kill people over.

I am also reminded of the quote the US Ambassador to Imperial Germany said to the German foreign minister before the US entered WW1. The minister threaten that if America entered the war, 500,000 German reservists living in the US would take up arms against their adopted country. The ambassador replied that the US has 501,000 lamp-posts...And that is where each and every one of the German reservists would find themselves at if they tried an uprising.

I honestly could not care less if the Islamic world hated the US. People use to hate Great Britain too. But hate by itself does not lead to attacks. It is hate combined with lack of fear/contempt/belief the object of your hatred is weak, that leads to attacks. Let them hate us, but as long as they fear us, perhaps then they will think twice about ramming hijacked airliners into buildings full of civilians.

C.T.

I hope that before they let the Imam board the airplane to Australia in New York, he was fisked.

Tim, hate to correct you, but I believe your line should read:

"Go. To. Fucking. Hell. You. Ignorant. Bastards."

I'm not a journalist, but I think you'll agree it reads better then your original.

Sorry, Imam old chap, I choose not to spend any time trying to understand the point of view of people who shave off all their pubic hair before committing mass murder. I leave that sort of thing to police psychologists and Thomas Harris.

"...the US President gave an "America Culpa" speech to the Muslim world."

Okay, here goes:

Sorry for lifting a finger to give back a country -- Kuwait -- to the muslim citizens of that country. I guess we should have let one group of muslims -- Iraqis -- slaughter another group of muslims -- Kuwaitis.

Sorry for lifting a finger to try and feed the muslim citizens of Somalia. I guess we should let them all starve.

Sorry for expending a couple of billion dollars defending the muslims of Bosnia from being wiped off the face of the earth. I guess we should have let the Serbs slaughter the muslims.

Sorry for waging an air campaign on Serbia trying to prevent the Kosovar Albanian muslims from wholesale slaughter. I guess we should have let them be slaughtered.

There are some days when I wish the U.S. wouldn't have lifted a finger to help any muslims anywhere. Fuck 'em, let 'em starve, let 'em be slaughtered. They are, for the most part, the most ignorant, ungrateful, useless group of people on this planet.

"The Islamic method of waging war is not to kill innocent civilians. But it was Christians in World War II who bombed civilians in Dresden and Hiroshima, neither of which were military targets."

And what in the HELL does this have to do with Islamic suicide bombers blowing up civilians right now?

We believe we are right and you are wrong. Therefore being right you should bow down before us. Give up your weapons to the GOD that is right. The only GOD. That you should worship the one GOD, and join us in teaching the rest of the world of our religion. Then soon we shall rise up. When our numbers and might are enough we shall rise up and enforce the religion and laws of the one GOD. Infidels shall fall before us. Our youth and brigtest shall walk before us. Bright shining stars. They who have all to look forward giving their all so our cause may become strong. These are the true heroes. It does not matter we are weak in arms. Nor does it matter we are weak in numbers. We have what our enemies do not. GOD. We are right and they are wrong, and our true heroes are willing to die for that truth.

"Should we feed them something today Sir?"

Just a small serving of rice then back to the shoveling. We are building pure vessels prepaired fo truth here.

Oh, and shoot the one caught stealing food. It should send the right message.

Hmmmm ... what a strange war when it's considered unsound to follow one of the principal tenets of warfare: "know your enemy".

It's almost like you guys are more interested in posturing than actually winning.

Okay, we must compromise with the Islamic youth to assuage them and mitigate their anger and frustration with "modernity" and the West.

Let's see: we'll ban abortion? Okay? Then we'll reinforce anti-sodomy laws against homosexuals. Pornography laws will be fully enforced. Women will not be permitted to vote. Or run for office. Or drive cars. Or leave the house.

As our progressive friends say, we must understand the causes of radical Islamic anger and mitigate them. We'll start with the above measures.

Molly, Margo, Noam, you there?

SMG

Mork, "You guys are more interested in posturing than actually winning"? Posturing as in the all words and no action UN, forever and a day ambivalent EU, the corrupt status quo at all costs Arab leadership, and the placard sloganeering of spoiled war protestors?

The US and allies are actually DOING something about the situation. And they do know the enemy. Do the various appeasers and sympathizers know themselves?

"The Islamic method of waging war is not to kill innocent civilians."

http://www.kashmirherald.com/featuredarticle/rewritinghistory.html

liar = taqiyya

Mork, we know them only too well. We've read and seen the hate-filled fanatical crap that spews from their mouths ('you love life, we love death'), we've seen their beliefs in action, in New York, in Madrid and a hundred other places, we've seen via the Taliban the way they would run the world if they had their way and we see the unreasoning hate and contemptible self-pity that drives their actions (the Spanish deprived them of their rule in Spain in the 15th century, poor diddums).
No, Mork, they don't need any more 'understanding'. Like the Nazis before them, such scum just need to be wiped from the face of the earth.

Mork:
Yes, we must "know our enemy."

But what is it exactly about the terrorists that we need to know? And that we do not now know?

The Islamic world is in a crisis. Radical elements see their world falling further and further behind the West or the remainder of the world. They believe that this fall is due to the compromises that Islam has made and that the key to regaining past glories is to enact the practices of that past.

Islam has fallen, they believe, because it has been corrupted by contacts with the West, with infidels, with traitors to the cause. In order to rise up again, these infidels, these traitors must be removed and, eventually, destroyed.

The "acids" of modernity (to borrow from Walter Lippmann) are eating away at Islam. It's confronting the modern world and must reform in order to survive and prosper. But elements do not see reform as acceptable; instead, they wish to defeat modernity.

Okay, Reader's Digest condensed version, to be sure and I'm painting with a huge brush. But what about the above needs refinement?

SMG

So, Mork tell us a little about yourself.

That's not knowing your enemy, that distributing propaganda to the general populus for him. Knowing your enemy is being aware of what he says, what he does, what his intetions are, and seeing through the bullshit. You can argue the "Knowing your enemy" angle when I see the people involved use this event and information against him.

I'm not as concerned about the meeting as I am the press they gave him. I doubt giving a voice in the media in necessary to bring him out and I very much doubt he is connected or valuable enough a target to make it worth giving him such positive press.

Here is the ABC's report on the visit:

Muslim cleric visits to promote harmony

A leading Islamic cleric will arrive in Sydney today for a visit designed to promote community harmony.

New York-based Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf will address several public forums, conferences and religious ceremonies during his two week stay.

Justice Minister John Hatzistergos says the State Government hopes Imam Feisal's visit will reduce community suspicion about the Islamic faith.

"We are a very tolerant community, which certainly appreciates and respects diversity, and it's important in any such consideration of Islam that we do get a balanced view," Mr Hatzistergos said.

"Imam Feisal will certainly contribute to a better understanding of these sorts of issues."

You know, Lee, I'm not at all surprised that you would consider someone like me more of an enemy for suggesting that our leaders could fight terrorism more effectively than they currently are than you do the terrorists yourself.

In fact, I think that kind of sums up the priorities of people like Tim and most of the commenters on this site.

Mork, The key thing to remember is that in some ways you are right. There are more effective ways of defeating Islamic terrorism. These methods would not result in soldiers from the west dying in Afghanistan or Iraq.

However, the leaders of the free world have deemed first use of nuclear weapons a bad thing to do. But we could solve the Islamic problem with firepower from one Trident submarine. 120 warheads, properly distributed, would send the Islamic world a little closer to the stone age than they are right now.

I think if every citizen in the west actually understood the wahabbists plans, those warheads would already be on their way.

"suggesting that our leaders could fight terrorism more effectively"

And what are you suggesting Mork?.

Mork, Ork calling; Phone home.

Mork,
There is no middle ground between Wahibbist doctrine and western liberal secularism. The Islamists understand this and some Westerners do, too. Do you envision a dialogue and compromise with the terrorists? They don't.

We are doing what we can through intelligence gathering, police work and law enforcement to apprehend terrorist suspects. We are dependent on international cooperation from countries with differing modes of operation and political interests. And, we have to deal with concerns over privacy and civil rights issues in domestic surveillance (the Patriot Act and Ashcroft are public enemies No. 1 now, and not sleeper terrorist cells in Des Moines). Big point, though, is that police work alone cannot prevent all criminal acts. Rather obvious, isn't it??

The US and partners have addressed a brutal government and state sponsor of alQaeda by taking out the Taliban. Afghanistan is rebuilding and has a fledging democracy.

The US and Coalition have removed a dangerous dictator from power in the Middle East and have brought hope of more open society and a free economy to Iraq. The opening is exciting to many Arab and Persian citizens and anathema to their oppressors. We are addressing a root cause of Muslim fundamentalism by bringing oxygen and sunlight to the stale, dark authoritarianism of
the area. Middle Easterners need to see that are not necessarily doomed to oppression by their leaders in cahorts with Western governments.

If all of these measures are so wrong-headed and doomed to failure, then what in the world is your magic answer? How would you stop terrorists bent on atrocities against the US and the West and against Muslim countries, too?

His speech is on Fools' Day? How apt.

"Hmmmm ... what a strange war when it's considered unsound to follow one of the principal tenets of warfare: "know your enemy".

It's almost like you guys are more interested in posturing than actually winning.

Posted by: Mork at March 22, 2004 at 06:54 AM"

Oh, Mork, I know them: They would cut off my clitoris and scrape away my labia and sew whatever flesh remained together. They would consign me to never seeing the sun again, as I would ALWAYS have to be covered in a burqa from head to foot outside, complete with veiling, and would be barred from any unshuttered windows inside. They would never allow me to work and, if my husband died, I would be left to starve or, possibly, prostitute myself and risk execution with each trick. They would stone me if I were raped, for committing "adultery." They would not allow my daughters to learn even to spell their own names.

Fuck you, you stupid man.

You know, Mork, I'm not at all surprised that you would consider Tim and most of the commenters on this site to be the more pressing danger to your idea of war on terror.

Unless, of course, you give equal trolling to the anti-war left. But I'd be surprised by that, given that you spend most of your time trying to get us to believe that the anti-war left doesn't even exist; that the majority of opposition to the Iraq war was borne from the idea that it is a "distraction" from the "real war" instead of being the ravings of a bunch of tin-plated socialist dupes running around in protests organized by International ANSWER and claiming to have magically known that Saddam never had any WMD anyway.

Apart from all that, inviting a terrorist sympathiser to talk on 'Harmony' day, week, month, year, millennium or whatever the hell it is - particularly just after women, children and babies were blown up on Madrid trains - is just fucked. It just is.

I don't suppose there's any chance of Australia keeping him.

Sortelli

Mork does go to the anti-war left exsept he trys to make them "feel better". His next move mite be to offer to have John Quiggens baby.

Gary: Oh yay. Jack Strocchi's over there too. Guess he found a better market for his psuedo-logic. "The Good War on Terror is different from the Not-So Good War on Rogue States... BECAUSE! Here's a list of unrelated details: WMD-No Democracy-Maybe. I rest my case will FULL INTELLECTUAL VIGOR"

Meanwhile, in this very post of Tim's, we've got a cranky Imam complaining that the cause of terrorism is the fault of the West for supporting dictators and imposing the status quo in the ME. But... you know... removing those dictators is not related to the war on terror. Because Jack Strocchi Said So.

"Imam Feisal said it was Christians who started mass attacks on civilians.

"The Islamic method of waging war is not to kill innocent civilians. But it was Christians in World War II who bombed civilians in Dresden and Hiroshima, neither of which were military targets."

Ahhhh, I can just imagine Cardinal Pell and the rest of the bleeding hearts turning the other cheek.

One hopes the Imam will let loose a few more such ephiphets under the roof of the cathedral.

What next? Abu Bakar Bashir sponsored by the Catholic church for a speaking tour of local parishes? The mind boggles.

These people are the Fifth Collumnists of Islam.

It's time to "tolerate them" on the OTHER side of the border.

"Hmmmm ... what a strange war when it's considered unsound to follow one of the principal tenets of warfare: "know your enemy".

Maybe but you don't invite Goebels round to peddle his propaganda on prime time.

"It's almost like you guys are more interested in posturing than actually winning".

And the BIG winning strategy is?

Oh you haven't got it with you, you left it at school.Never mind you can tell us all about your hamster.

Oh for Pete's sake are people still replying to mork? For those that came in late all he ever does is stir up shit with some pathetic whinny commment with a component of "tsk tsk bad right winger, Tim's a bad man" crap. And does he ever come up with an intelligent opinion not provided by Oprah or Ricki Lake? Of course not.

Consider it/him/her to be like a bad rash. Do you talk to tinea? Get personal with a sweat-rash? NO? Then consider him on par and ignore it/him/her. Like a rash, if treated properly it goes away. mork is more like herpes I would suggest, comes back when you least expect it and is annoying but doesn't stop you getting on with life.

my 2cents on ways to enjoy this site more.

Oh and for the record, now any citizen of Australia who promotes islamic uprisings should be charged with treason.

Jesus Christ, Mork, I have had it with you. What is your goddamn problem? Don't you have a life? You're not worth calling an "enemy" -- your nothing but a dried-up old donkey turd that even flies have abandoned. But I'll give you this one last piece of knowledge: we do know our enemy, and what they are all about, because they have told us in so many words. It's just that for years we listened to "our betters," the Multicultural Diversity pushers, who told us "they don't really mean that" and "they're just saying those things" (we will kill you all! the infidel must die! we will destroy the West! kill! kill! kill!) "because they are angry" -- apparently at not being hugged enough. Well, September 11th, 2001 was the end of all the lies and the evasions. But there are still some psychologically-destroyed rejects from humanity who still somehow want to believe their own lies -- and for some reason people like you want to encourage them, or at least you want to throw any obstacle you can in the path of those who now know the truth. I can't understand why you are like this, unless this proves that there really is a Satan and he has agents. Hi, minion!

To know our enemy any better than we already do, we'd have to fuck them. For my part, I observe there are still dogs in the street, so perfect knowledge will have to wait. Hell, I'd fuck you first. That's how much I want to "get to know our enemy" any better. Is that clear, asshole?

Jake D: yeah, I know. But you can't just "ignore" people like Mork -- they take being ignored as a sign their spewings were accepted.

Steve, your strategy for removing some of the grievances of Mahommetans against Western society has some sound points, but there is a major question it leaves unanswered:

Who is going to volunteer to do Margo's cliterectomy?

JakeD

If we did respond to Mork we wouldn't have read classics like "And does he ever come up with an intelligent opinion not provided by Oprah or Ricki Lake?","mork is more like herpes I would suggest, comes back when you least expect it" and "your nothing but a dried-up old donkey turd that even flies have abandoned".

Never mind he is probable of buying an apple for the teacher.

Sue:
"Who is going to volunteer to do Margo's cliterectomy?"

As they say in Tehran. Oy.

On the other hand, that's a good slogan for our side. If we lose, the terrorists win AND one of us has to, er, find Margo's umm, er, and has to, well . . .

Too ghastly to contemplate further.

They'll never take ME alive, that's for sure.

SMG

" ... leaders could fight terrorism more effectively .."

And how do you suggest they do this, Mork? More 'peace conferences'? A few more marches? Should we make earnest attempts to 'understand' the bloodthirsty fanatics who have vowed to kill us? Or should we simply allow Islamic terrorist scum to live in our countries and plot our destruction?

There is one way - and one way only - to 'fight terrorism effectively' - and that is to kill every terrorist we catch. Then arrest and imprison their apologists and appeasers.

Any person who advocates an Islamic state in Australia or who supports terrorism against the West should be locked up for treason. Or better yet, deported - then our taxes wont be used to feed the scum.

Wow. So pleased I stumbled on this enlightening discussion. Tim - your slack-jawed cabal of drooling cronies has excelled themselves this time. What on earth have you been feeding them?

A serious question: How can we help moderate Islam to rid itself of extremist Islam? It seems to me that we need to find an answer to this question, or the terrorism will continue to feed on itself. It also seems to me that some of our actions, and some of our utterances (viz most of the above), actually feed the extremists, and help those extremists to to drown out the moderate voices.

As for the Imam: Let him speak. Unless he's arguing for mass murder, he's unlikely to be as offensive as some of you... "120 warheads, properly distributed, would send the Islamic world a little closer to the stone age than they are right now". Hey, it's still a free country, and if this ignorant prick can say what he wants, then so can the ignorant Imam prick.

And so can Mork, for that matter. He/she suggests we need to know more about the enemy. You claim you know enough about the enemy already. You do not. Because you do not know how to stop them.

No. You. Do. Not.

(And the 120 warheads won't do it, IP. Unless you're planning to drop them on New York, London and Sydney as well. Islam, including its extremists, is not bound by geography).

Bye now.

Hamas "Spiritual leader" just been killed. One fewer terrorist scumbag.

Thanks for the news, Andrew.

Hoping that it was slow and painful :-)

It also seems to me that some of our actions, and some of our utterances . . . actually feed the extremists, and help those extremists to to drown out the moderate voices.

What actions and utterances might you be referring to?

You do not know anything Nemesis. No. You. Do. Not.

I know this is totally unrelated but just thought some of you might like to know that Sheik Yassin, the 'spiritual leader of Hamas, just dropped into hell thanks to some Israeli testicular fortitude represented in the form of a missile hitting the King Cockroach's car. Thank G-d they finally did it. What a great day for western civilization!!!!

Actually its not unrelated at all. Same shit different smell.

Do you know enough about the enemy and do you know how to stop them, Nemesis? Or is your carping about US and Coalition efforts against this enemy just sanctimonious bitching?

Cause if you have the answers and are not sharing them, then a thousand bites to you by a cabal of ornery camels. But if your answer even comes close to using "cabal" and "cronies" in the same phrase, or if your grand idea is to charge the West with "fixing the problems of Islam" (even if possible, an offense more egregious than forcing American pork rinds into the Arab diet), then it is apparent that you don't know EITHER side of this war THAT WE NEVER ASKED FOR.

120 warheads, properly distributed would be a good start. But then again, I'm not as Islamist and I do not get hard on fantasizing about exterminating my enemies and all of their people. As I said, the west does not do first strikes with nuclear weapons.

One thing I am clear on though is that if you kill enough terrorists, it does not breed more terrorists.

When allies killed enough fasicsts in Germany, Japan and Italy, they stopped breeding more fascists in those countries. At least in a form that is really dangerous, and those countries have been peaceful for 60 years.

If the wahhabists strain is exterminated, along with the PLO/Hamas strains, then peace will happen.

And nemesis, appeasement was very fashionable in the 30's and 40's. It didn't do any good then and won't do any good now.

Nemmie needs to go figure out what that brown stuff is that keeps appearing in his underpants. Let's not disturb him -- the learning process is a wonderful thing, no matter how long it takes.

Wow, there's so much hate on this website...half of you loonies need a shrink.

I agree with you Bruce about how killing terrorists is a good way to stop them. Problem is that we are only applying half measures which might be breeding more terrorist for now and is good propaganda for the Appeasers. Evenntually we will have to just go and kill them I just wish more people would realise this sooner rather than latter. Also reducing the number of willing Jihadis is not the only way to contain the Jihad. For instance Hamas, Fatah, Isalmic Jihad etc.. have more suicide volounteers lined up than they have explosives for. In this case the IDF's imediate priority is to disrupt their weapons making capabilities and not bother to much about the new recruits. The West is to preoccupied with the whole "why do they hate us" syndrome. Personally i dont care if they hate me and I dont want my children to play with their children. As long as they cant actually do it then I dont give a shit whether they want to or not.

Go hug your self fred!

Hey guys, speaking of joyous hate - let us rejoice that the Israeli military has killed Saruman the White!.

Nem, I give Mork credit for atleast being able to utilize nuance, though he seem's incapable of observing it objectively. His statements have been thoroughly proven invalid; so what's wrong with slamming him given his history of be wrong and lacking in relevance. It's not like all of us haven't considered his ideas; it's that most of us have, thoroughly, before he presented them. We're not allowed to be annoyed with people whose priorities, motives, and objectivity are, well, lacking. And who, continously persuing a flawed line of thinking, repeatedly tries to pull the discussion back.

Here, I'll throw you a bone: Our character flaw is we hate repetition. We hate that you repeat debunked memes. And we hate that you push us to repeat ourselves. And we hate going back, over and over, to point out how you're wrong about the same thing again and again. We hate having to pull up the details that we have already assimilated.

You got it, aaron.

Er... I mean... I hate you for repeating that! ;)

Not a single carp about either the US or the Coalition in my last post, c. You're making up an argument, presumably because you're unable to answer my question.

I'm not in favour of appeasement, Bruce. Quite the opposite in fact. You're making up an argument, presumably because you're unable to answer my question.

Is that a genuine question, Sortelli? Have you read this thread at all? You're not even making up an argument, so God knows what the hell point it is that you're not making.

Andrea - hugs and sloppy kisses! Love your work.

Nemesis, the actions and utterances that empower the terrorists were provided in my links. Happy surfing!

Sorry that my post was too, um, nuanced for you to grasp at first read, I know that irony can be confusing and tough to handle from a 3rd grade reading level. Might I suggest voting for a straightforward guy like Bush?

PS. Everyone, Nem's not carping on the Coalition now because his arguements on that topic always get shot down. Please move on.

re: Hamas + spiritual leader, some may find this article interesting:
http://www.counterpunch.org/hanania01182003.html

WARNING: it contains material which may offend.

If you want to encourage moderate islam and discourage fanatisism, do business and interact with moderates. Don't praise extremist and idealogues.

I take your point, Aaron, but I suspect that many of the memes (have I mentioned I hate that word?) that you consider to be thoroughly debunked, have in fact not been debunked at all.

It's hard to say with any accuracy, given we're speaking hypothetically, so maybe we should agree to identify the next allegedly debunked meme, and see if we can find any agreement. (I promise not to cite the debunked WMD meme again, as further discussion on this point would seem to be superfluous).

Mork's comment that caused such outrage pertained to a need to know your enemy better. I don't know if this qualifies as a meme. It seems like a simple statement of the obvious really, and not worthy of attack. Take the opposite view ( ie know less about your enemy) and see how it tastes. In my view the attack on Mork was just a schoolyard ganging up on the kid who is "different", with all the usual lackeys jumping on the bandwagon.

I could be wrong, but I believe that Mork would be attacked for asserting the sky is blue.

"do business and interact with moderates. Don't praise extremist and idealogues" I agree with this, but I'm not aware of too many credible commentators who are in fact praising extremists and idealogues. There is the seed of an interesting discussion in this - what exactly do you mean by "extremist" and "idealogue"? Do you concede that they exist on both sides of this argument?

And the sky, I note, is mostly cloudy. Mork is wrong again!

"Wow, there's so much hate on this website...half of you loonies need a shrink."

And D udder half D bullet?

Nem, I'm tired so please excuse my lack of attention.

I hate the word meme too, but I'm not so good on the vocab front. I refer you to the archives for the rest. Know your enemy was adressed before most of the bashing. The attacks were well deserved given the leniency he's been given in past.

Nemesis, what "extremist ideology" exists on the opposite side from Islamofascism? The answer is secular democratic liberalism. That's the "extremist ideology" the terrorists want to destroy.

but I'm not aware of too many credible commentators who are in fact praising extremists and idealogues.

Nem, the problem with this statement is that any commentator who prases extremists and idealogues gets labelled "non-credible" and suddenly cannot be discussed in front of you.

And yet there's all these non-credible commentators out there saying that Coalition troops are "legitimate targets" and that we should "understand what the terrorists want" in order to achieve peace. Speaking against the Pilgers and the Margos and the appeasers is important because they've got people listening to them, even if you're not one of them.

Oh, oh! I got it. Let's fight a defensive war like Vietnam!

Or, uh wait. We did that to exhaust the communist's economy building weapons to kill our soldiers. Someone wanna crunch the numbers there?

In a move likely to cause controversy with church leaders, Imam Feisal said it was Christians who started mass attacks on civilians.

The Sydney Morning Herald thinks that only church leaders will be offended by this?

You think Church leaders will be offended by this? They'd probably pray for him.

Well we've got the quinella with both mork and nemesis reporting in for annoying. Who will drop in next to give us the whole trifecta?

For the record nemby I skip pretty much all of what you two write and get right down to hanging shit on you both. More satisfying than taking you seriously and earns a greater reward - you crack it. I can just imagine that you must get so indignant over the evil that spews forth on this site. Go on hang some shit! Call me slack-jawed (one very overused expression on your part), get all annoyed and kick the cat!

To the normal in the audience, I applogise for troll-baiting but damn it's entertaining.

....Just realised I contradicted a previous post...ah what the hell, I'm right-wing therefore possibly nuts anyway.

Did Nemmie write again? It's so hard to read something written in poo.

"Not a single carp about either the US or the Coalition in my last post, c. You're making up an argument, presumably because you're unable to answer my question."

So, this "slack-jawed cabal of cronies" misread your voice of moderation. You DO support the US/ Coalition campaign against Islamist terrorism, but just question our motives, maybe, and certainly our means. And, boy, do you "question"... But you give no answers, Nemesis, presumably because you're unable to answer your own question

Wow, there's so much hate on this website...half of you loonies need a shrink.

And the other half already have one.

Paging nurse Ratchett...

Know thy enemy? That brought on a seizure induced vision of wwII..remember when we gave Japan a great big group hug after Pearl Harbor and we didn't have to go to war, because that hug was enough. It was bigger and more powerful than any nuke. Japan just need to be heard, a hug and some understanding! And remember when Hitler went on a speaking tour around the world giving rousing speeches in which he said he was going to kill jews and take over all of Europe? That made things so much better, it really cleared things up and we didn't have to go to war!!!

Well, it could have happened..if Nemesis and his comrades were running things.

I think I know a lot about the enemy. They would like to see me die, they would like for my girl-children to die. Even if I wanted to understand them better, they would still want me to die. And they don't like buddist statues or world trade centers or African embassies or ships named U.S.S Cole or Bali nightclubs or Freedom or Homosexuals or "free love" or feminism or porn or alcohol or Spanish subways or "insert religion here" or feeding starving muslims or saving muslims about to be slaughtered or doing nothing about muslims about to be slaughtered or dealing with Dictators who are mean to muslims or freeing muslims from dictators. In short, they don't like much of anything we do, except death and destruction.

Hey, Kelly, maybe you also remember that when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, we didn't go and invade Brazil.

Instead we devoted our resources to actually defeating the guys who attacked us.

Strange, huh?

All in all, I'd say that the hostility and sheer irrationality of the comments on this thread are a pretty good indication not only that I am right, but that you guys know it, too.

But you're now so emotionally committed to a foolish policy that you'd rather discard truth and logic than admit to being wrong.

The human capacity to deny reality if that is necessary in order to rationalize continuing on a chosen course is simply astounding.

All in all, I'd say that the hostility and sheer irrationality of the comments on this thread are a pretty good indication not only that I am right, but that you guys know it, too.

Mork, I see it all know. Instapundit posts fake emails from plastic former Democrats. We do not know our enemy. Democracy in the Middle East has nothing to do with terrorism. The moment you pointed out to me how rational and sane you are and that you are therefore right made it all clear to me.

Wait, no, that was just gas.