January 10, 2004

SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE ANTI-SEMITISM

Graham Barrett in the Melbourne Age:

Just six decades after the Holocaust, it is no longer considered socially inappropriate in some educated circles of the West to express anti-Semitic sentiment. It happens right here in Melbourne.

I wish this wasnít true -- I love Melbourne, where I lived for a decade -- but it is. I lost an old contact book a few months ago, and I donít miss it that much, because itís loaded with people I used to like who these days blame the Jews. Sad.

Posted by Tim Blair at January 10, 2004 02:59 AM
Comments

I find it can be lonely being a (small 'f')fascist.

Posted by: jafa at January 10, 2004 at 03:40 AM

I guess it has to do with the way the literati operate the oppressor/oppressed categories. Once it's been decided you're an oppressor, you've had it. Think of the diatribes against white males over the last 30 years. A section of the literati seem to have decided to make Israelis oppressors and Palestinians the oppressed and once this happens any reasoned approach to the issues becomes impossible.

Posted by: Mark Richardson at January 10, 2004 at 08:20 AM

I guess it has to do with the way the literati operate the oppressor/oppressed categories. Once it's been decided you're an oppressor, you've had it. Think of the diatribes against white males over the last 30 years. A section of the literati seem to have decided to make Israelis oppressors and Palestinians the oppressed and once this happens any reasoned approach to the issue becomes impossible.

Posted by: Mark Richardson at January 10, 2004 at 08:21 AM

Maybe it's because I'm from Perth, where we've got about three Jews in the whole state, but I've never been able to figure out what's so bad about them.

They have been among some of the worlds finest writers, film makers, composers, intellectuals. Indeed, it is hard to imagine any other comparatively small group of people contributing so much to world civilisation.

It really is sad, and bitterly ironic, that they're blamed for so much that goes wrong with the world, when they've really done so much to make it a far better place.

Posted by: gaz at January 10, 2004 at 12:25 PM

Mr Barrett repeats a falsehood - that Mr Barak's offer was fair, and that Palestinians "retaliated with suicide bombers". Other than that, it is a reasonably thoughtful piece.

However, he dismisses Arab suspicions about the 2001 NY/DC attacks when there are at least some reasons why Israeli involvement isn't preposterous. I think it's unlikely, but not impossible, given the USS Liberty episode, and others.

Posted by: fatfingers at January 10, 2004 at 12:44 PM

These sweeping 'anti-whatever' tags are tendentious ploys, Tim, as I suspect you very well know. It wasn't anti-Australian for you to despise Keating or for your American buddies to despise Clinton. It's not anti-Australian of me to despise Howard. And it's not anti-Semitic of me to despise Sharon.

Posted by: Rob at January 10, 2004 at 03:15 PM

Oops, I left out 'or anti-American' in there somewhere ...

Posted by: Rob at January 10, 2004 at 03:16 PM

[i]I think it's unlikely, but not impossible, given the USS Liberty episode, and others.
[/i]

Please tell me your joking.

Posted by: Quentin George at January 10, 2004 at 03:59 PM

As a Jew the rise in the number of people who hate me (based on blatant lies mostly) is starting to get a little scary. However if for every new anti-semite there is someone like Tim or Gaz who are willing to stand up for the us, then I wont be feeling the need to pack up my stuff and move to Israel. Reccently I have been witnessing a phenomenon that only a couple of years ago I would have never thought posiible. Gentiles that I know have been learning about Israel and the Jews (from sources other than the 6 oclock news) and are seing what the plain and simple truth is. I think it wont be long untill there are more zionist goyim than there are Jews. It is heart warming, to say the least, when someone tells me they've decided that its time to take sides.

What I tell them in reply is this;
Everytime the world turns to shit, the Jews are the first ones on the chopping block. The Germans went for the Jews before they went for the rest of Europe, the Rusians gave us pogroms before any cold war ever started. And the Arabs have been blowing up Jews for a long time before they started blowing you guys up. I dont know why, but the formula works. We are like the canary thye used to send down into the mine to test if the air is okay to breathe. Right now, this exact point in history YOU have the choice to avoid the mistakes of your ancestors who stood aside while the Jews were attacked. Dont do it for the Jews but do it for yourselves. Becaise if you stand up to the anti-semites now you can SAVE YOUR OWN ASSES. Because once were out of the way, youre next.

Posted by: Dead Ed at January 10, 2004 at 04:01 PM

How exactly did it come to be that the defenders of Israel and of freedom and democracy everywhere are now labeled "fascists" by the left?

But if that's to be our label, then I'm proud to be a "fascist". And a zionist goy.

Posted by: Pixy Misa at January 10, 2004 at 09:56 PM

fatfingers comments "However, he dismisses Arab suspicions about the 2001 NY/DC attacks when there are at least some reasons why Israeli involvement isn't preposterous."

Very astute fatfingers. Israel threatened Iran and then BAM! Bam was destroyed by a level 6.5 earthquake. I'm not saying Israel did it but there are at least some reasons why Israeli involvement isn't preposterous.

Posted by: Reid of America at January 10, 2004 at 10:33 PM

Right on, Dead Ed. As for fatfingers:

"Mr Barrett repeats a falsehood - that Mr Barak's offer was fair, and that Palestinians "retaliated with suicide bombers"."

What was unfair about it? Factual sources, please - none of this conspiracy bullshit.

"However, he dismisses Arab suspicions about the 2001 NY/DC attacks when there are at least some reasons why Israeli involvement isn't preposterous."

Such as? Again, facts from credible sources, please.

"I think it's unlikely, but not impossible, given the USS Liberty episode, and others."

I see - you're the type who can't tell conspiracy mongers from credible sources. Never mind. (In case this thread gets wifty, here's a comprehensive debunk of the USS Liberty conspiracy theories.)

Posted by: Yehudit at January 10, 2004 at 11:01 PM

fatfingers,

To make sure I don't confuse your "astute" mind and start another anti-Israel conspiracy theory. My comment on Israel possibly being involved with the earthquake in Iran is sarcasm.

Posted by: Reid of America at January 11, 2004 at 12:25 AM

They have been among some of the worlds finest writers, film makers, composers, intellectuals. Indeed, it is hard to imagine any other comparatively small group of people contributing so much to world civilisation.

Gaz, one passage I read in Howard Goodall's Big Bangs was a list of Jewish musicians, composers and conductors who made a significant contribution to music. The list ran for almost a page.

Posted by: Robert at January 11, 2004 at 01:36 AM

I'm not anti-Semite. Nor anti-Jew. Nor even anti-Israel. What i AM is practical. I think it's a horrendous waste of taxpayer money, funneling hundreds of millions of dollars "support" into a country which has only ever given us the Uzi sub machine gun, ICQ and Goa trance. Let's cut off the bleeding-heart donations and have them deal with their crap themselves.

Posted by: pwq at January 11, 2004 at 02:59 AM

PWQ, you're an idiot. 'Nuff said.

Fatfingers, I think this was the wrong week for you to stop sniffing glue.

Posted by: ushie at January 11, 2004 at 03:35 AM

Quentin George, use standard html pointy brackets for formatting. Tips here.

And everyone be nice to Fatfingers! He's very sensitive!

Posted by: Andrea Harris at January 11, 2004 at 04:04 AM

If there's one country that doesn't deserve any help from the US it's Egypt, not Israel. Israel is a staunch American ally, Egypt just gobbles up the dough and let's the Islamofascists run the universities, papers and TV's (just go have a look at LGF)

Posted by: madne0 at January 11, 2004 at 05:01 AM

Two quick thoughts:

Godwin's law says that when Nazi comparisons are used the conversation is dead, or something to that effect; is there another law that says when some bonehead brings up the USS Liberty as evidence of the evils of Israel the conversation also dies? Let's call it Hen's law;

PDQ - You are so clueless it is frightening: Uzis, ICQ and Goa? That's it huh? Scary stupid, but even if this were all that Israel ever gave to the US, please list what Egypt, Jordan, SA, Iran, Iraq, etc etc etc has given us. And then do a list with the EU. Dumb twat.

Posted by: hen at January 11, 2004 at 07:31 AM

I think it's a horrendous waste of taxpayer money, funneling hundreds of millions of dollars "support" into a country which has only ever given us the Uzi sub machine gun, ICQ and Goa trance. Let's cut off the bleeding-heart donations and have them deal with their crap themselves.

No problem with that, of course, if what you mean is cutting off all aid.

Cutting off aid to just israel would be a little...prejudicial, no?

Posted by: Quentin George at January 11, 2004 at 07:56 AM

I'm not suprised at all Robert.

Posted by: gaz at January 11, 2004 at 11:39 AM

PWQ
You must be American I'm guessing coz as far as I know Australia doesnt give any aid to Israel.
Note this;
Whereas US miltitary aid to most countries is money they'll never see again, the aid they give Israel is really a good investment. I'm not saying that you get all of your moneys worth but at least a little. For instance, the first ever soviet tanks that US military engineers were able to examine were given to them by Israel after they captured them in the '67 war (might of been the '73). Right now Israeli scientists are in America working on some sort of giant laser beam "death ray" or something like that. Also those "smart bombs" the US uses carry Israel technology. Israel has the best military scientists in the world and the US has a lot of money to spend, its a perfect match.

O and by the way you forgot about seedless watermellon

Posted by: Dead Ed at January 11, 2004 at 12:37 PM

i forgot to mention all the intellegence sharing that goes on between Israel and the USA. This is the biggest pay off for America. Example take a look at the Mossads role in the capture of Saddam. Worth this years entire foreign aid budget at least

Posted by: Dead Ed at January 11, 2004 at 12:42 PM

Military science isn't the only thing Israelis have contributed to. There have also been advances in medicine, agriculture (Israel is famous for its work in "making the desert bloom", remember?), and computer technology, among other things, that have come out of Israel. I am sure someone could find a list through Google.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at January 11, 2004 at 12:56 PM

The "debate" over anti-semitism is chronicly idiotic and has not gone past the kindergarten level of social theory in the 25 years that I have been following it. Scaling downwards, the conceptual topography is as follows:


  • Jews are a sect ie racial-religious group. Opposition to them on racial/religious grounds, eg Nazis, is racism/sectarianism and Bad.

  • Israel is a nation ie regional group. Opposition to Zionism on national grounds comes from other nationalists, eg Palestinians, it may be good or bad, depending on the legitimacy of various Israeli sovereignty claims. ref: UN Resolution 242

  • Likud is a party ie partisan group. Opposition to it comes from other partisans eg Labor, Peace Now, Clinton, is often good as Likud has a Bad ideology - "Greater Israel" Zionism. - as even it's most ardent supporters concede.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

Posted by: Jack Strocchi at January 11, 2004 at 03:03 PM

Not the point at all, the point is that when criticism of Israel exercising the natural right of a soverign nation to defend itself is called anti-Jewish, they move on to the next stage.

Posted by: Sheriff at January 11, 2004 at 11:53 PM

Yehudit, the site you recommended as a debunking specifically states it isn't an attempt to persuade, but is merely a collection of primary sources.

Also, you might like to look at http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/editorial/outlook/2345393 for a short summary of reasons why the USS Liberty was deliberately sunk.

Posted by: fatfingers at January 12, 2004 at 08:38 AM

It's a shame that so few [on either side of the "debate"] have ever bothered to try to carry out some reasonably objective research into the History of the Palestine/Israel area, especially in regard to the situation there immediately following WW II up to 1947.
But perhaps it's more comfortable to simply "know" that the team for which you barrack, is on the side of "light and good"?

Posted by: Norman at January 12, 2004 at 01:17 PM