January 07, 2004
EUROPEAN SOPHISTICATION, PARTS I, II, III, AND IV
Part one, from The Age’s Tony Parkinson:
A Belgian colleague of mine from the days of the 1991 Gulf War, Alain Hertoghe, has been sacked from his job at the La Croix newspaper in Paris. His crime? To have the temerity to suggest publicly that American strategy in Iraq was not the wholesale strategic disaster so many commentators, in France and elsewhere in the West, would have us believe.
Rather than debate Hertoghe's analysis, the collective response has been to ostracise one of the few professionals in their midst who knows from experience that myth-making and ill-informed prejudice can be every bit as as dangerous and blinding as a desert sandstorm in coverage of events in the Middle East.
Parkinson also mentions Californian Dr. Susan Block, whose language skills have lately inspired an Islamist audience. Part two of our Euro Sophisicato roundup is from Germany, where asylum seekers are much more generously treated than in wicked Australia:
In 2002, Germany registered 71,000 requests for asylum. About 6 percent were granted.
In Australia, about 90 per cent of asylum seekers who arrive illegally by boat are granted protection visas. We so bad! And part three, via Eursoc, is this line to journalists from former Parmalat finance boss Fausto Tonna:
I wish you and your families a slow and painful death.
Which is essentially what BBC director general Greg Dyke is wishing for his own organisation, as it prepares for the publication of the Hutton report. Dyke’s comments provide part four:
"What is important once Hutton is published is that if the BBC is criticised we learn from whatever is written - assuming of course that we agree with what is said," Mr Dyke told staff.
How unilateral of him.
(German link via Ian from Berlin)
UPDATE. This piece by Philip Jones on the proposed European constitution makes several good points, including:
The driving force behind the construction of a united Europe in the past 60 years was not France or Germany but the determination of the hated USA to bring about a stable alliance in Europe in order to counteract the communist threat from Russia.
UPDATE II. Germans and Frogs demonstrate the European method of getting along.
(Via reader Lewis A.)
Posted by Tim Blair at January 7, 2004 03:01 AMI admit to being too much of a rube to understand European sophistication. I know they are supposed to be vastly superior to everyone, according to them, but I just can't see it. I assume this is probably because their sophisticated, nuanced ways are just wasted on a mere yank.
Posted by: Chris Josephson at January 7, 2004 at 04:37 AMFrom a Euro viewpoint, you're viewpoint is wrong precisely BECAUSE you're an American. As an American, you are: rude, uneducated, lacking in nuance, overbearing, bloodthirsty and motivated only by greed. It's an 'a priori'* point of departure in any discussion related to Americans.
*a priori - being without examination or analysis : PRESUMPTIVE b : formed or conceived beforehand Merriam-Webster Dictionary
It is now on the level of religious tenet among the left. Mr. Hertoghe was fired for questioning the first commandment of the left; Americans, being capitalists, are always wrong. In other words, he was fired for blasphemy. He's proably lucky he wasn't burned at the stake on a bonfire of dollars.
Posted by: Michael Hiteshew at January 7, 2004 at 05:27 AMI am so confused. I think I will have to turn to our leading actors and musicians to help me; they are good at translating Eurosophistication into a language that a dumb American boy such as myself can understand. I look forward to the Oscars show where I'm sure I will be edified about how good and smart the French and Germans are, and how accurate their predictions are too!
Posted by: Sergio at January 7, 2004 at 05:51 AMI smell a mole. Sergio? Come on, are you Greek? Italian? A self-hating Romanian? Fess up, Euroboy!
Disclaimer: The previous comments were not intended to offend anyone at any time, including the aforementioned Sergio. The comments above are simply the result of my illiterate, crude, unsophisticated attempts at humor. I will now go read the New Yorker in order to further strive towards Europerfection.
Posted by: Jerry at January 7, 2004 at 06:00 AMHas all of your EUROPEAN SOPHISTICATION helped you pay off your Marshall Plan debt?
Posted by: Scott at January 7, 2004 at 07:16 AMI'm afraid that I am with Chris Josephson on this. I don't understand either. We're just insufficiently sophisticated, nuanced, and all that. Fortunately, help is at hand. We can turn to our fellow countryman, Neal Starkman, to enlighten us.
On second thought, even that wouldn't help. We're at the wrong end of the damned bell-shaped curve. The hell with it. I'll just go down to Wal-Mart and buy a six-pack of Pabst and forget about it.
Posted by: Ernie G at January 7, 2004 at 07:25 AMMarshall Plan debt? Heck man, only one European nation has paid its World War I debts in full to the United States. All others default. Guess which one paid in full?
Answer: Finland.
Posted by: jim at January 7, 2004 at 07:38 AMAs an American, you are: rude, uneducated, lacking in nuance, overbearing, bloodthirsty and motivated only by greed. It's an 'a priori'* point of departure in any discussion related to Americans.
Of course, there's no 'a priori' departure point when US citizens are sneering at Europeans, is there?
As for the Marshall Plan, how endebted to France does the average American feel for the assistance given by France during the Revolutionary War?
How many to-day even know that the French helped?
How much credit do Lafayette and his French troops get? It was a joint Colonial-French force, lead by Washington and Lafayette, which defeated Cornwallis at Yorktown.
A couple of quotes about the Marshall Plan from official US sources.
"Something had to be done, ... to stop the potential spread of communism westward.
The Marshall Plan, it should be noted, benefited the American economy as well. The money would be used to buy goods from the United States, and they had to be shipped across the Atlantic on American merchant vessels."
"Nations have no permanent friends and no permanent enemies. Only permanent interests"
Posted by: Peggy Sue at January 7, 2004 at 08:10 AMWhat the sacking of Hertoghe neatly illustrates is censorship over the press is exercised in Europe.It is no secret French newspapers publish on affairs of govt. and foreign policy only with tacit vetting and approval of the govt. on subject matter.
This censorship is heightened by the blasphemy laws contained in the `consitution' for supra socialist Euro tyranny.
There is mistaken belief that freedom of the press and of speech is a gurantor of liberty. To the contrary by a blunt fact, those freedoms were genereated in common law countries because of common law. This is germane to Australia , given the mad rush to overthrow common law including by some of the judiciary.
Posted by: d at January 7, 2004 at 08:10 AMOn the issue of Lafayette, one of the primary motivators for our taking the side of the British and French in World War I was repaying the moral debt to France. In fact, there was a refrain that went:
"Forget us, Lord, if we forget,
the sacred sword of Lafayette."
In my view, this debt was more than paid in full.
Posted by: Jim McCarthy at January 7, 2004 at 08:21 AMLafayette and his "French troops" where citizen volunteers. They where not soldiers in the French military. France, as a country, put French soldiers into action in 1781 under the commands of DeGrasse and Rochambue.
How does 6 months of French assistance during the Revolutionary war equal US assistance in WWI, WWII, and Vietnam?
Posted by: James at January 7, 2004 at 08:35 AMI think the body parts and friends my grandfather left at Chateau-Thierry to be my family's contribution to paying the debt owed (and is owed) to LaFayette. That's not even counting WWII. I suppose we could have just left them to the Vichy govt with a truncated France (maybe we could roll the borders back, even now). France appears to be the prime example of the old adage: "Give a person a hand when they're in trouble, and the next they're in trouble, they'll be back asking for more."
Posted by: JorgXMcKie at January 7, 2004 at 08:37 AMhow endebted to France does the average American feel for the assistance given by France during the Revolutionary War?Any debt (of gratitude, not money) arising from that would accrue to the king of France, who was overthrown and then killed by the First Republic; if anything, this would give USAns some sort of moral obligation to hate the French Republic, not to feel grateful to it. Of course, the relationship of the Fifth Republic to the First is somewhat tenuous, but both represent the French people in some way, which the king did not. And, of course, Louis 16's aid was all about hurting the UK, furthering his own war with it, just as Hitler aided Finland in its war against Stalin, so no debt of any kind was created. Posted by: Zev Sero at January 7, 2004 at 08:51 AM
Don't assume France and Germany are Europe, nearly 60% of Europe supported the coalition in Iraq..
Posted by: Anthony at January 7, 2004 at 08:55 AMDon't assume France and Germany are Europe, nearly 60% of Europe supported the coalition in Iraq..
Posted by: Anthony at January 7, 2004 at 08:56 AMIt would be impossible and inappropriate (given time and space limitations) to analyse fully the animosity of French and Germans to the US. It is apparent at least to me, that the US, being a former colony, has never escaped the cultural cringe that they share with Australians when dealing with their former "mother" countries.
Why should US citizens care what Europeans think about them? The US provides a better living for more people than does Europe. The US demonstrably has a social conscience that embraces women, blacks, Jews, hispanics etc etc..Europe demonstrably does not. The US makes better films that Europe (yes, this is the reason French cinema needs to be supported by its taxpayers)although that is not to say that they are all to my personal taste but so what?
A visitor to the US feels safe and energised (I have often been one). US citizens I have encountered across America have been intelligent, friendly and helpful. Sure they don't know much about French politics but neither do the Brits who live "next door" and really why should they?
Not all things about the US are good just as not all things about any society are good but I need to keep reminding myself as should Europeans, good and evil are largely defined in terms of my self interest and others with opposing viewpoints may feel the same way.
Feel good about yourselves because, in the end, you are the leaders of the free world.
Posted by: Allan at January 7, 2004 at 09:12 AMMr. Hiteshew:
Even the Euros aren't stupid enough to burn someone on a pile of dollars.
I live in Canada. I have cousins who live in Germany. We are all right wing madmen who loathe the left wing trash around us and who apparently control our countries. Disregard the polls; we never tell the ruth to pollsters.
A few more votes in the USA for the Dems and you'll be in our position. We Canucks, Krauts and no doubt the Frogs do not need your contempt; we need your help to convince borderline lefties that the left wing approach to politics, economics and life are wrong.
Keep on leading by example, but please, ease off the rhetoric; it just cements some people into their positions.
"Feel good about yourselves because, in the end, you are the leaders of the free world."
And that, Allan, is probably what pisses the European leader states the most. No longer are Paris, Berlin or Milan centres of international political discussion. Even the UN are based in New York. Though to give them credit they do put on nice little shows around fashion time.
Posted by: Jake D at January 7, 2004 at 09:59 AMCan someone advise how a subeditor or editor or whomever it is writes headlines could have arrived at 'There are dangers in hyperbole' over Tony Parkinson's Age story?
Posted by: ilibcc at January 7, 2004 at 10:02 AMUnlike the Preamble to the US Constitution, they will never turn the Preamble to the European Constitution into a popular song.
Any document as long and as featureless as the European Constitution could stand for nothing. And that describes the Europeans.
Posted by: Eric Jablow at January 7, 2004 at 02:25 PMEric, YOU MADE MY DAY! I didn't know Schoolhouse Rock had a website; I should have known better. The internet is a wonderful world.
My favorite Schoolhouse Rock was Jack Sheldon as the tired piece of legislation. 'I'm just a bill. Yes, I'm only a bill. And I'm sitting here on Capitol Hill.'
I don't watch Saturday morning cartoons anymore, but it would be great for the networks to have something like Schoolhouse Rock and 'In The News' again.
Posted by: Polly at January 7, 2004 at 03:44 PMActually Americans do remember well the French who with Lafayette aided us in our revolt against the British. We remember the quasi-war that Napoleon's France began against our fledgling nation soon thereafter. Nonetheless, General Pershing's line was "Lafayette, we are here" on arriving to save the French from conquest by Germany in WWI. And Americans remember the French soldiers and sailors killing and wounding them as they landed on the North African coast in November of 1942 to begin their liberation.
Fear not, we won't forget ... even if the French do.
Posted by: Robin Roberts at January 7, 2004 at 04:09 PMI was always taught that the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. Oh, sure, few Americans do not enjoy denigrating the French on occasion but, overall, you're just not going to find the same level of vitriol directed toward the French in the US press that you will find vice versa. Why? Because, let's face it, the French really don't matter much. It isn't ignorance that most Americans profess towards the Continent, it's apathy. I'd go on but, I've really lost interest...zzzzzzzz
Posted by: Reid at January 7, 2004 at 04:24 PMA few odd points of reply to the various posts..
I was taught in school about the French help during the Revolution. I live in an area of the US where the Revolution started, have been steeped in the stories since I was a kid.
During the American Revolution it was not Americans vs. Brits.. It was Brits. vs. Brits., the notion of being a totally separate country and being non-British didn't sink in for a while. The reason many fought was because their rights as BRITISH CITIZENS had been violated. The revolutionists were British at the time the revolution started. (Paul Revere is supposed to have said: "They've turned out the Regulars". He did not say "The British are coming". The latter would have confused the revolutionists who considered themselves British.)
The US will be just like Canada or Europe if our 'elite' classes ever come into the power they have in those countries. We have people in the US who would love to see this happen and are working hard at it. Same is true in Australia.
Where the 'elites' have taken over, the people have lost real power. They are just told what to do, think, and say. This could happen in any of our countries if we're not careful.
I wish my fellow Americans would just shut up about the 'debt' Europe owes us. Why is that always thrown up? Why not the equal debt, for the same war, owed by China? Why do we always throw it up at Europe? What about rebuilding Japan?
We didn't get into WWII to 'save' these countries so much as if we had NOT, we'd pretty much be an island surrounded by Japan's and Germany's conquered lands. We were saving our own bacon as well as everyone else's. We also weren't the only non-Euros to fight over there. Australia and Canada ring a bell? (My uncles fought with Aussies in the Pacific. Great fighters. But, Australians were in Europe also.)
Posted by: Chris Josephson at January 7, 2004 at 04:45 PMOverheard by this tourist in the ladies' loo at the Victoria and Albert:
Woman #1: I have a couple American friends.
Woman #2: Oh, really?
Woman #1: They're quite well educated. Not everyone is a barbarian. There are some who are rather civilized.
Woman #2: Yes I'm sure there are.
Woman #1: Just shows you shouldn't judge people.
Woman #2: I suppose not.
I kid you not.
Laurie K., who has done a little bit of travelling and doesn't find the average European to be any more or less "sophisticated" than the average American
Posted by: Laurie K. at January 7, 2004 at 05:10 PMBy the way, the biggest recipient of the Marshal Plan was....wait for it, the United Kingdom.
And the idea the French assisted the Americans out of some love for liberty or somesuch is ridiculous. The french at the time were still under one of the most reactionary monarchies of the time, a monarchy that made calling George III a tyrant, laughable.
The assistance was given to the Americans because of residual resentment at the British for the success in the French and Indian Wars which gave the British the control of Canada and ended the French Imperial dream in North America.
Some of the anti-Europeanism displayed in these comments re-enforces opinions of those who are anti-American in Europe. Accept that a large amount of Europeans _are_ behind the US and support those people. Chirac is not representative of European statesmen and in any case he leading his country into a dead end.
Some of us in Europe were, and are, 100% behind the war on terror.
Posted by: Anthony at January 7, 2004 at 07:20 PMAnthony:
"Some of the anti-Europeanism displayed in these comments re-enforces opinions of those who are anti-American in Europe. Accept that a large amount of Europeans _are_ behind the US and support those people. Chirac is not representative of European statesmen and in any case he leading his country into a dead end.
Some of us in Europe were, and are, 100% behind the war on terror."
------
There are a**holes in every country who love to debate for the sake of debate. I have tried to ignore those a**holes over there, please try to ignore the same here.
We have our 'elites' who will tell everyone how bad the US is, and we have our a**holes who will tell everyone how the US is better than any country and take aim at various countries to prove their points.
The 'average' American is somewhere in the middle. There will be over reactions over perceived slights, but by and large I don't know any serious, thinking American who wants to alienate any country. The reactions are mainly towards the leaders in those countries, not the peoples.
The world needs a strong Europe, fighting this new war with the rest of us. I've read many blogs and articles by Europeans and know that the 'war on terror' is something they want to take part in as well. Same for the Canadians.
It just so happens that most European countries plus Canada are ruled by the same type of people in our own country who want to do anything BUT admit there is a war that needs to be fought.
The US would be in the same situation as Europe and Canada had some people gained power in our country. I think they may have gained power had it not been for Sept. 11. I've never seen so many of my fellow Americans vocally oppose the crap we have been fed by our various 'elites' (media, academia, and various interest groups) as I have since Sept. 11.
It's (the reaction) has taken many by surprise. For the most part our 'elites' had a pretty free reign spewing their hatred of the US. They seem surprised that 'free reign' is now at an end.
The vocal opposition has taken our 'elites' by surprise. They are being challenged in ways they never were before. They have equated the challenge with silencing, which is quite commical. Nobody is silencing anyone. It's just that the opinions of many 'elites' are being held up to public ridicule. This is a new experience for many.
I know this may sound like an overstatement, but I believe the Western Countries are in a fight for our way of life and our culture. I believe the radical Islamists when they say they have declared war upon us to overthrow our countries and establish their Sharia law.
The 'elites' in all the Western Countries don't seem to regard this as a threat to be met with force, even though war has been declared. Seems to me our 'elites' hate themselves, our countries,
and values to the extent they may unwittingly hand over our countries to the Islamists without realizing what they are really doing.
Our 'elites' don't live in the same world the rest of us do. They live in some theoretical perfect world where everyone gets along and there is nothing that can't be solved by talking and admitting the West's grave faults.
The Internet has made it possible for people from all countries to connect and talk with each other. We can bypass the 'official' positions of our governments and our 'elites'.
The question is, what can we do? How can we help each other?
Posted by: Chris Josephson at January 7, 2004 at 08:59 PMThese postings have convinced me that whatever common sense remained in Europe after the free thinkers emigrated to America was obliterated on the battlefields during the two world wars. Europe is now the land of suboptimal genomes. Fear not, though, America will show you the way.
Posted by: David Govett at January 7, 2004 at 09:08 PMThese are some of the most insightful, intelligent and amusing comments I've seen on any blog - bravo Tim Blair.
Laurie K - here's a conversation I overheard at a French restaurant in Miami between the french waiter and a french family (in french - a language I speak):
Waiter: "So, are you enjoying your visit to the States?"
French father: "America is great, I just can't stand Americans!"
Both: "hahahaha"
Me (in French): "Hey! I'M American you arrogant bastard and if you don't like us, you can take off!"
French father: "uhh...I was just kidding.."
I kid you not...
Posted by: Matt at January 7, 2004 at 09:15 PMIt just so happens that most European countries plus Canada are ruled by the same type of people in our own country who want to do anything BUT admit there is a war that needs to be fought.
I take your point about point-scoring *********, and I also agree we are in a war that some seem unable to acknowledge, but nearly 60% of European Countries supported the war in Iraq. You can work it out yourself but the figures are on my blog.. The BBC like to think that Europe was against the US and UK, I don't think they should be allowed to get away with that simplistic analysis.
If we allow Bin Laden to split the democratic nations, then we are doing his job for him.
Posted by: Anthony at January 7, 2004 at 11:21 PMOn the topic of "France's" debt:
Not only was the France which assisted us in the Revolution ruled by a tyrant, it was (more to the point) a different France. It was overthrown during its own revolution, and ceased to exist as the nation it was. The nation which arose in its place --also known, quite coincidentally, as "France"-- is the one whose real or imagined debt we're discussing.
Not to worry. In 50 years France will have a Muslim majority. The Algerians are the only ones reproducing at a higher rate than replacement. The people that produced Lafayette are slowly eliminating themselves.
When I lived in Germany, I thought they were all smarter than Americans because, well, they could all speack German.
Posted by: AST at January 8, 2004 at 04:24 AM
Getting back to the French help during the Revolutionary War, many of you miss a VERY big point.
France only came on board with aid to the US after the defeat of British General John Burgoyne at Saratoga. It was an insurance policy for future aid and material assistance against England. Had the US not had success against Burgoyne, the French would have continued to sit on the sidelines.
Also, many scholars believe it was this military disaster for England which caused George III's mental breakdown, more than likely hastening the eventual final British defeat with the aid of the French Navy.
Posted by: BruxellesBlog at January 8, 2004 at 06:21 AMErr...what caused Lord North's breakdown then?
The King had been pushing for war (against a large proprortion of the House of Commons) but as I was aware, the House of Commons were making most of the decisions.
More to the point, the French came in on our side because they wanted to poke the British in the eye -- it wasn't long afterwards that they got into a war of their own with the Brits.
Posted by: Steffan at January 8, 2004 at 09:49 AMMany scholars believe it was this military disaster for England which caused George III's mental breakdown, but many medics believe it was his porphyria.
Posted by: Anthony at January 8, 2004 at 11:15 AMWell, since you had to go and bring up Schoolhouse Rock, see how aid to America was remembered even in cartoons:
http://www.school-house-rock.com/Shot.html
Music isn't as good as Conjunction Junction though.
David
Posted by: David at January 8, 2004 at 02:55 PMhere's a conversation I overheard at a French restaurant in Miami between the french waiter and a french family (in french - a language I speak):
Waiter: "So, are you enjoying your visit to the States?"
French father: "America is great, I just can't stand Americans!"
Both: "hahahaha"
Me (in French): "Hey! I'M American you arrogant bastard and if you don't like us, you can take off!"
French father: "uhh...I was just kidding.."
here's a conversation I overheard at a McDo restaurant in Montparnasse between the waiter and an American family (in English - a language I speak):
Waiter: "So, are you enjoying your visit to Paris?"
American father: "Paris is great, I just can't stand Parisians!"
Both: "hahahaha"
Me (in English): "Hey! I'm Parisian you arrogant bastard and if you don't like us, you can take off!"
American father: "uhh...I was just kidding.."
Marty: If you look at the economic history of Europe, you'll note that it was seriously spiralling to disaster until: the discovert of NORTH SEA OIL. Which few whingers there can't seem to remember. Thus, they scream "It's all about OOOOOILLLLL!"
Posted by: Joe at January 8, 2004 at 11:19 PMHmmm...perhaps we should deal with our fellow humans as individuals and leave arguments as to relative "sophistication" to those who care about such undefinables...
I think there's a great deal of anti-European resentment in America now, mostly directed at the French and Germans, and I think it's unfortunate. One may criticize Chirac's government, but I think it's stupid to damn a whole race for such, particularly when you don't actually know any members of that race...
But that's me.
Posted by: Drew at January 9, 2004 at 12:29 AM........I think it's stupid to damn a whole race for such, particularly when you don't actually know any members of that race...
Holy moley the French are now a RACE? Silly me I thought it was just a nationality. We also hear people talk about Muslims as a RACE as opposed to a religion. Talk about lack of sophistication.....
here's a conversation I overheard at a McDo restaurant in Montparnasse between the waiter and an American family (in English - a language I speak):
Waiter: "So, are you enjoying your visit to Paris?"
American father: "Paris is great, I just can't stand Parisians!"
Both: "hahahaha"
Me (in English): "Hey! I'm Parisian you arrogant bastard and if you don't like us, you can take off!"
American father: "uhh...I was just kidding.."
********************************
here's a conversation I overheard at the UN between the germans and french as they were preparing to veto the americans :
French: "I cannot believe the americans want to go after Saddam. He has been such a cash cow for our economy. Why, the oil-for-food program alone nets my gov't over $1.5 BILLION anually (shhh - don't tell anyone that we are violating UN sanctions by doing this)"
German: "Ya! Ya! those darn americans! My gov't only got $350 million anually according to reports, but we managed to swing another $1 BILLION annually by shipping through Jordan and Syria (don't worry, 'franco' your secret is safe with me - because we violated UN sanctions too)
Both: "hahahaha - those silly americans"
Americans: OK - we will kick his butt without your meaningless support and then laugh our butts off when you beg for contracts to re-build Iraq. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA