December 21, 2003


Please welcome The Nation's Matt Taibbi, The San Francisco Chronicle's Mark Morford, and author A.L. Kennedy to the Gullible Order of Bush-Bashing Leftist Evangelicals. Here's Morford's qualifying paragraph:

It was a proud moment in American history. Almost as proud as when Dubya secretly flew to Iraq a few weeks back to spend 2.5 hours pretending to serve a fake, inedible plastic turkey to that handful of carefully selected, prescreened soldiers.

Comically, Morford's link takes you to the original Washington Post story, which contains this disproving information: "A contractor had roasted and primped the turkey to adorn the buffet line." Morford is, of course, a well-known idiot.

The best online columnist of 2003 joins G.O.B.B.L.E.'s stellar list of polymer Meleagris gallopavo fantasists: Adam Porter, W. David Jenkins III, Phillip Adams, Kasha, Nico Pitney, Alan Ramsey, Daryl, and Mark Lawson.

Add lightbulb-headed, vegan-looking Scottish author A.L. Kennedy, too, thanks to her column in today's Guardian, which accuses Bush of:

... using fake Thanksgiving photo ops involving a "model" turkey dinner - perhaps because a real one would have been too heavy and caused George's arms to shake.

Interesting theory, scrawny chick. Matt Taibbi, a New York Press columnist and contributing writer at The Nation, secured his membership with this interview:

MATT TAIBBI: It was a plastic turkey.

AMY GOODMAN: Was it actually plastic?

MATT TAIBBI: Yes. Apparently it was a plastic turkey.

AMY GOODMAN: It was plastic?

MATT TAIBBI: Yes. That was actually reported in the -- in another part of The Nation, in the daily outrage column online. But, yeah it was a plastic turkey, apparently. Which is even funnier. The famous shot where he's holding the big turkey, apparently that's a plastic turkey.

Actually, Matt Bivens' Daily Outrage column only describes a phony or fake turkey -- although an earlier mention of the Bivens story records the headline as The Plastic Turkey Presidency, so perhaps Bivens has subsequently covered his plastic turkey-tracks.

Matt's membership is delayed, pending investigation.

(Kennedy nomination via Peter Briffa)

UPDATE. Heather Wokusch (below, left) and Ian McNamara join the Coaltion of the Gobbling.

Real people ... or mindless plastic replicants? Nobody knows.

UPDATE II. Via J.P. Sopel in comments, add Gregg Easterbrook.

Posted by Tim Blair at December 21, 2003 02:39 AM

Taibbi and Goodman's interview confused me. Was it a plastic turkey? Plastic? Turkey made of plastic? Not un-plastic was it? Plastic you say?

Plastic turkey.

Posted by: RC at December 21, 2003 at 03:48 AM

I love the way Bush is a towering figure in Morford's elaborate, delusional persecution complex, dominationg his every waking moment and haunting his nightmares- yet Bush is blissfully unaware of Morford's existence.

I'm glad the pres dosn't know about Morford, otherwise his sleep might be disturbed at the half-remembered knowledge that he figures as a twisted, pseudo-sexual daddy-figure lurking in the greasy basement of a perverted San Fransicso columnist's subconcious, jostling with the numerous leering, phallic monstrosities and psycological disfunctions from Morford's abuse-riddled childhood.

The leader of the free world has enough on his plate without being creeped out by that kind of shit.

I enjoy reading Morford's columns because, unlike alot of lefty ranters who affect an air of condesending amusement at Bush's 'stupidity', Morford is too dumb for such sublty. Through him you can get a good feel for how angry the dolphin worshippers are this week and therefore how well things are going for the strong arm of Western civilisation that shields soft fucks like Morford from the consequences of their own stupidity.

It's a great comfort to know that if Islam triumphs Morford will the be the first shoved under a wall. Can you imagine this self-indulgent, effeminate sack of shit under Sharia law? God, I almost hope Al-Queada wins, just to see it.

Posted by: Amos at December 21, 2003 at 04:21 AM

It's a great comfort to know that if Islam triumphs Morford will the be the first shoved under a wall. Can you imagine this self-indulgent, effeminate sack of shit under Sharia law? God, I almost hope Al-Queada wins, just to see it.

Well, my Christian mores forbid me to assent to Amos' wish...

No they don't.

Go Amos!

Posted by: Alice at December 21, 2003 at 04:45 AM

But what do the letters G.O.B.B.L.E. stand for? Are we supposed to figure it out or make something up? Is this a contest? Help!

Posted by: ForNow at December 21, 2003 at 04:47 AM

While I agree in principle with attacks on Morford's stupidity and silliness, I also sense that Amos is trying to suggest that Morford is gay. I had assumed the same thing, based on the fact that many of the political members of my homosexual clan share his puerile pseudo-leftist viewpoints. But after doing a little searching, it seems that he mentions a "girlfriend" in this interview. It was sort of a relief to discover that he apparently isn't part of the clan after all. He's just extending that adolescent rebellion phase, and pretending that he's Mr Decadence when in fact he's just a run-of-the-mill, overpaid, upper-middle-class heterosexual white guy who is horrified at how utterly normal and nominal he is. After reading a few of his things, I think we should impose sanctions against him until he gives up his thesarus.

Has anyone else noticed that many of the left wing loonballs who make fun of Bush (and others) for being religious and speaking in terms of "good" and "evil" seem to have almost medieval superstitious hatred of Bush? He's kind of taken the place of the Devil in their moralist fantasies. As Reynolds says, they're not anti-war, they're just for the other side.

Posted by: goldsmith at December 21, 2003 at 05:31 AM

I've been mentioned in the same breath as The eXile's Matt Taibbi? Fuck, yeah!

Posted by: Daryl at December 21, 2003 at 05:55 AM

Oh, yeah. It's only because I'm the #1 Google search for "fake+plastic+turkey". Good that, eh?

Posted by: Daryl at December 21, 2003 at 05:57 AM

Oh well, at least I was for a while.

Beep beep, I like cheese.

Posted by: Daryl at December 21, 2003 at 05:58 AM

All due respect to Goldsmith and my other hard-headed gay homies on the libertarian right, but Morford sure sounds gay. And not good gay. The annoying kind.

You know the type, somewhere along the way "My sexuality is my own business' changed into "My sexuality is everyone's business and your all going to hear about it and every other stupid thing that pops into my head'. Morford's 24-hour Pirates of Penzance all-singing all-dancing campfire jamboree of idiocy has that kind of irritating gay stamped all over it.

It's like it's still the 1950's and all us straighty squaresvills are just going to be so shocked by the oooooout-raaagiousness of it all! Well we see gay people all the time on TV now and the mystique has kind of worn off. I have bad news, your campaign for mainstream acceptance accidentaly succeeded and now you're just a bunch of middle-class shmos like the rest of us, so shut up about what you did on the weekend.

Also I might point out that, although Morford claims to have a girlfriend, the truth and Morford are not well acquainted.

Posted by: Amos at December 21, 2003 at 06:05 AM

Bush is an idiot! No, Bush is Machiavelli! No, an idiot! No, a modern day Borgia brother! No, an idiot! Diabolically brilliant! Idiot! Niccolo! Dumbo!

Oy, have that bouncing around in your head for three years and you'd be loopy too.

It's not the loony Left, it's the loopy Left.


Posted by: SteveMG at December 21, 2003 at 06:07 AM

Amos -

I think you just proved that Morford is straight - if he were gay, he would mention it 10 times in every column.

Instead he's just a poor, unshocking heterosexual, reduced to talking about sex toys to startle the normals.

Posted by: Brendan at December 21, 2003 at 07:55 AM

THe dialogue between between Tabibi and Goodman is hilarious, but I submit from the Marx Brothers. Who can forget Chico and Groucho in the immortal Coconuts? "Vy a duck? Vy a no chicken?"

Posted by: Roger L. Simon at December 21, 2003 at 08:16 AM

THe dialogue between between Tabibi and Goodman is hilarious, but I submit they stole it from the Marx Brothers. Who can forget Chico and Groucho in the immortal Coconuts? "Vy a duck? Vy a no chicken?"

Posted by: Roger L. Simon at December 21, 2003 at 08:17 AM

I don't like plastic!

plastic, plastic, plastic, spam and plastic!

Posted by: Matt at December 21, 2003 at 08:42 AM

hehehe...i bet dubya could bench press SEVERAL turkeys... hehehe

Posted by: beavis at December 21, 2003 at 08:43 AM

Ian McNamara from "Australia all over" pushed the plastic turkey myth this morning.

Posted by: Andjam at December 21, 2003 at 09:17 AM

Wasn't Morford the same guy who did the Chron e-mail stuff? I used to get that and rather liked the writing. Then 9-11 came and now Morford sounds like the too-friendly uncle you don't want to be around after three Rolling Rocks.

Posted by: Bill Peschel at December 21, 2003 at 09:17 AM

"A contractor had roasted and primped the turkey to adorn the buffet line."

"It was a proud moment in American history. Almost as proud as when Dubya secretly flew to Iraq a few weeks back to spend 2.5 hours pretending to serve a fake, inedible plastic turkey to that handful of carefully selected, prescreened soldiers."


I must admit that I'm somewhat of a duence, and nowhere near as smart as my betters of the left liberal party and especially the French, but. . . .I've just got to ask this, since I'm not all that bright. . . .

Just how long to you roast a plastic turkey?

Posted by: Narniaman at December 21, 2003 at 09:49 AM

I was thinking of Bitter Angry White Liberals. Waaaaaah. Bush Lied, BAWLers cried.

Posted by: Bob Carter at December 21, 2003 at 10:09 AM

Nice catch, Narniaman.

Posted by: rosignol at December 21, 2003 at 10:20 AM

Actually, the real plastic turkey is Tim Blair.

Posted by: gobble at December 21, 2003 at 10:20 AM

Gobble: Actually, I think of Tim as more the Wild Turkey type. . . .

Posted by: Glenn Reynolds at December 21, 2003 at 10:25 AM

You missed out the best bit in the interview:

AMY GOODMAN: Matt Taibbi, you have also written about President Bush's trip to Iraq. There is a lot that is coming out that doesn't make it mainly to television, and that's where most people get their news. The fact that he went at 5:35 in the morning, waking up the troops for Thanksgiving dinner, then the whole story of the turkey that is the famous picture of him, and yet, here is the turkey that was not actually served to the troops
Maybe the reason that this didn't make it to Television is because it's demonstrably untrue, the result of some very sloppy journalism. Not that that's ever troubled the BBC (for example) in the past...

Posted by: Alan E Brain at December 21, 2003 at 10:56 AM

Bush may have been holding a "non-practical " turkey. Aged film technicians like me will remember the distinction between a "practical" turkey and the "non-practical" bird. Film feasts are not usually fully cooked. The browning goes on the ouside; the inside remains raw and inedible, and gets thrown away. These are not "practical" meals. The practical meals are usually eaten by the crew.

Who knows? And does it matter? The dispute raises the possibility of some sort of dumb turkey joke, but I won't bite.

Posted by: Richard Lubbock at December 21, 2003 at 10:59 AM

Morford is driven and consumed by anti-Bush hysteria, a national phenomenon far more pathological than his sexual preferences (whatever they may be).

"Through him you can get a good feel for how angry the dolphin worshippers are this week and therefore how well things are going for the strong arm of Western civilisation that shields soft fucks like Morford from the consequences of their own stupidity."

"Dolphin worshippers?" I am puzzled by the aquatic reference. Morford defends deep ends -- but he seems to argue strongly against shielding "soft fucks."

I think it's better to attack Morford for what he is -- a psychotically obsessed Bush basher -- rather his sexuality, his softness, or (apparently) his pro-Cetacean bias. I can't stand the way the guy thinks, but attacking him for irrelevant -- and speculative -- reasons makes little sense to me. Sorry, but I think it's a poor tactic.

Posted by: Eric Scheie at December 21, 2003 at 11:03 AM

I can't fail to notice that the B.P.A. club on this comment list chooses to focus on the fake turkey comment and thus obfuscates the substantive questions within the piece.

Morford asks:

"The capture does not justify the savagery, nor the humiliation. Not by a long shot. The ends do not justify the means. Nor do they justify the staggering, steaming pile of BushCo lies about why we went to war in the first place.

Remember those? Remember how not one single motive BushCo gave for launching this insane war has actually been proven true? Does this even matter anymore, the string of falsehoods and treasonous fabrications? Apparently not. This is America's biggest wonder, and its ugliest flaw: a nasty short-term memory."

I wish the Importantpundits here would address these issues and enlighten me as to how this capture has made any difference in the security of the United States.

I don't feel any safer from terrorism. Do you? Really?

Posted by: Last One Speaks at December 21, 2003 at 11:09 AM

A much more nourishing analysis of the turkey dinner comes from Ottawa Citizen columnist David Warren. Warren looks beyond the skin-and-bones of news, and that's why hardly anyone seems to know he exists.

Posted by: Richard Lubbock at December 21, 2003 at 11:12 AM

Last One Speaks,

Actually, the benefits of dismantling the Iraq regime are quite apparent -- it's just those who don't want to see it will never see it:

1) Saddam has had WMDs in the past, used them, wanted more of them. He would not comply with inspectors. Regardless of whether WMDs turn up or not, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior -- period.

2) The establishment of a "bookend" democracy to compliment Afganistan will, in the long-term, reap enormous benefits, both as a deterrent to breeding new terrorists (which tend to develop in countries with dictatorship/fascist leadership), provide a model/example of the potential of democracy to other Islamic countries, and clearly sends a message to the other governments in the region that they had better let up on their people, as their is now an example (two, actually), that these thugs can be overthrown

3) Another message that has been sent is that if you do not comply with certain standards with respect to WMDs, you will end up in a spider-hole. The evidence for that is Libya in the short-term, which is self-evident, but will also spread to others.

There are other points, but this should suffice. And yes, while we have a ways to go, we are MUCH safer now than two years ago.

Posted by: Jerry at December 21, 2003 at 11:38 AM

Morford: Not to mention the more than half a million Iraqi children who've died from lack of medicine or decent health care since the brutal, U.S.-backed U.N. sanctions were imposed 12 years ago. Shhh.

Morford acts like it’s undiscussed because it’s been kept secret.

Lies like that are fun for commies to believe. By the way, how many people did leftists murder during the 20th Century, 100,000,000? Or has it been only 85,000,000?

Propagandizing Sanctions
Google cache
by Matthew McAllester of Newsday, May 24, 2003, Sun Journal via Newsday

Saddam's parades of dead babies are exposed as a cynical charade
by Charlotte Edwards, filed May 25, 2003, the Telegraph (UK)

Suffer The Children,5478,6600315%255E25717,00.html
by Andrew Bolt, June 16, 2003, Herald Sun (Australia)

Confessions of an Anti-Sanctions Activist
by Charles M. Brown, Summer 2003, Middle East Forum

Posted by: ForNow at December 21, 2003 at 11:41 AM

I don't feel any safer

Neither did Khadaffi in are safer, wheather you think you are or not. Or does the significance of Al Qaeda attacking soft targets in Turkey instead of Amercan embassies and warships and office buildings escape you??

Posted by: Shark at December 21, 2003 at 12:08 PM

Last One Speaks:

Why should whether one FEELS safe be what determines whether or not certain policies or tactics are working?

I felt very safe on 10 September 2001 - should I have?

People who for years have not been shy about announcing they want Westerners dead and actually killing them are now themselves being killed or arrested. THAT makes me safer whether I feel it or not.

Posted by: timks at December 21, 2003 at 01:09 PM

Last One: the reason why no one asks that question is because the only person who thinks like that is a stupid asshead.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at December 21, 2003 at 01:36 PM

Ah Ms. Harris:

That's what I love about the Bush Policy Apologists. They have such good manners and are willing to engage in mannerly debate.

Posted by: Last One Speaks at December 21, 2003 at 02:48 PM

Dear Mr. One:

That's what I love about you lefty idiots. You are so willing to dish it out but not to take it.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at December 21, 2003 at 03:12 PM

What I like about those who constantly repeat proven falsehhoods (think Last One Speaks [is that some sort of threat?]) is their absolute obdurate imperviousness to any sound but their own voice. They're amusing, but tiring. Evidently they have no memory at all, let alone short term.

It is futile, but I would direct them to Bush's State of the Union speech of this year and the resultant complaint from the anti-war crowd that he was making too many arguments instead of sticking to just one. Evidently Last One Speaks suffers from either total memory loss, an unwillingness to admit the truth, or perhaps he/she cannot read.

Oh, well. By this time next year Bush will have won a landslide and a lot of these folks will have burst a blood vessel and we will no longer have to worry about educating them.

Posted by: JorgXMcKie at December 21, 2003 at 03:22 PM

Jerry as to your points, in brief and without links because I am pressed for time at the moment,

1. Bush himself declared not only Saddam but also the WMDs inconsequential months ago. Both are immaterial to this so called war on terror.

2. If you hold up Afghanistan as a model of success then you haven't been reading the press on the abysmal living conditions and the rise of narco-terrorism in the last year. They still have no infrastructure nor any semblence of democracy much less order outside of Kabul. And I don't know how you count two thugs. Last I checked Osama is still at large and it sure took a lot of manpower to overthrow the other one, if you want to count the constant buzz of guerrilla warfare still going on as having overthrown the regime. Perhaps you can tell me how we will know when we've won there?

3. I can't comment on Libya. I haven't read anything on it yet but Ghadafi was not exactly cowering in a spider hole, he closed a business deal long in the making. As I recall it was Bush and Cheney cowering in a very fancy spiderhole of their own as 9/11 unfolded.

All of you who responded can say we're safer but you don't say how. The way I see it, this strategy of pre-emptive military takeovers is only further pissing off the Islamic dissidents and making attacks more likely here. They couldn't have hired a better recruiting agency than the US government. And we can't even find all the terrorist cells in our own country. How are we going to stop them from forming in the Middle East.

Posted by: Last One Speaks at December 21, 2003 at 03:24 PM

"Islamic dissidents"?

Posted by: Rodya at December 21, 2003 at 03:27 PM

Stories like this make me wonder why the Jayson Blair affair sent the New York Times into a writhing mea culpa for weeks. Apparently if enough "journalists" buy into a false rumor and report it without verification, nobody feels the slightest need to apologize.

How many precious artifacts were looted from the Iragi National Museum, again? I don't suppose any of them were plastic turkeys.

Posted by: AST at December 21, 2003 at 03:36 PM

Last One Speaks,

1) Not sure what you are talking about...honestly. I said that I believe that the removal of Saddam was beneficial because he is a psychopath (in the clinical sense of the word, I work in Corrections), and had a long-established record of indiscriminant killing whenever he had the means, motive, and opportunity. He should have been removed long ago, one of Bush I's failings (he listended to the UN, to his shame).

2) That's why I said long term. No one believed that this was going to be quick, in terms of building democracies -- no one, except for possibly some of the "so-called" journalists who continue to insist that people have said it. Bottom line, I can't speak for anyone else, but I assumed a minimum of a ten year presence in each country, and I see that as reasonable. I mean, we're still in Kosovo for crying out loud, and no one's complaining about that. And I was referring to the Taliban, not Osama, which reinforces my point re: terrorists thrive in states such as these.

3) You all need to get off of the "Bush was cowering" crap. It detracts from any sane points you have to make. As you may have noticed, I tried to respond to your post with respect, without any of the personal attacks people tend to complaion about. Bottom line -- this country had just been hit in way no one expected, caught with its pants down, and I expect the Secret Service to make damn sure that no one can hit our leadership, Republican or Democrat. If that means bottling someone up, all the better. I'd say the same thing for any president, and would have wished someone had done it for Kennedy.


Posted by: Jerry at December 21, 2003 at 04:03 PM

>The way I see it, this strategy of pre-emptive
>military takeovers is only further pissing off
>the Islamic dissidents

Dude, they crashed jets into buildings and killed 3000 people. How much more "pissed off" do you think they can get? Seriously?

They want us (including you) either submissive to Islam, or dead. What makes you think that being nice to them will change that?

I know you can't accept the fact that somebody whom you have never harmed has declared himself your enemy, but tough - there it is. Deal with it. And don't blame the government or conservatives or the Military-Industrial Complex, either. Do you believe in equal rights for women? Freedom from religion? Gay rights? Abortion rights? THEN YOU ARE THE ENEMY OF ISLAMIC TERRORISTS. THEY HATE YOU. THEY WANT YOU DEAD OR CONVERTED.

Frankly, I don't fucking care if we "piss them off." I care that we kill them. Before they kill me and, yes, you.

I know this is all terribly unpleasant and inconvenient. Luckily, rough men are standing ready to do violence on our behalf so we can sleep peacefully in our beds. Enjoy the privilege. If you can't, at least be grudgingly grateful enough not to carp.

Posted by: Dave S. at December 21, 2003 at 04:20 PM

'Last one speaks' jesus.

Im so tired of explaining the same things over and over to peacenik idiots that I can barely be bothered, but one more time:

1- Appeasing and groveling to dictators, terrorists, totalitarian fanatics and thugs gets you one thing- attacked. For supporting evidence consult the entire recorded length of human history, What the fuck is wrong with you?

The reason you don't understand this is because you're determined not to. You're yet another well-meaning and timid middle-class western suburbanite with utterly no concept of the baseline savagry of human nature, having never been exposed to it. This makes you effectivly a profoudly spoilt and arrogant little brat (though I'm sure you consider yourself a paragon of high principle), smugly assuming that the civilisation that bestows prosperity and freedom apon you just popped out of nowhere, dosn't need to be defended, dosn't need to be maintained, and can be safely attacked from within by arrogant leftist buffoons in the name of masturbationary moral grandstanding.

Civilisation is the exeption in human history, barbarism is the rule, and when the fences fail the temples and libraries burn, and guess what happens to people like you? Go on, Mr. Lets-all-just-get-along, guess what happens when the soldiers can no longer protect your lilly-white ass?

You don't understand this because your idiocy is invincible. I know nothing I say is going to get through to you, you're probably reading this and hearing "I like Icecream, I like icecream" over and over instead of my words. I know your, tedious, ernest, unimaginative, self-congratulatory worthless kind all too well.

2- Defeat deflates militant Islam, victory inflames it. When Osama looked like he was winning, that's when the recuits flooded across the boarder to his banner. When the Taliban lost, they went home. The hard core of fanatics remain, but so what? They hate us regardless. IF it looks like they're the losing side they get way LESS upport, not more. If God is on their side how can they lose?

Once again, this should be obvious, but your fortress of stupidity is impregnable, you will NEVER UNDERSTAND THAT CRIMINALS THRIVE ON THE WEAKNESS OF THEIR VICTIMS. Fortunatly for you, we have leaders who do understand.

3- The cleanup and democratisation of the Middle East is essential to winning the war on terror. By removing the dictatorships that sponsor terror and creat the conditions of social frustration and ignorance that breed it, the US has embarked on a couragious and ambitious project. Who else can attempt a project like this, Saddam's backslapping buddies the French?

This is the grand, long-term strategy, that's why Iraq is important. Afghanistan will never amount to shit, it's just a holding pattern, but Iraq could be made into a modern democracy. The benefits flowing from this to the region and the world would be immense.

But shit, why do I bother? Why do I waste my breath on you? Forget it, Bush bad, he verry bad man who want lots of oil for Haliburton, look, I yam political sophisticate!

Just believe whatever makes you feel happy or important or superior or whatever. I know you will anyway. Idiot.

Posted by: Amos at December 21, 2003 at 04:36 PM

Unfortunately, I believe that the usually sane, but sometimes blowhard Gregg Easterbrook needs to be added to the list.

Posted by: JP Sobel at December 21, 2003 at 05:33 PM


And think: somebody had to fly a fake turkey to Iraq. Voters are not stupid; this sort of thing may backfire on Bush.

Voters are not supid, but Greggy sure is! I think Easterbrook should win top honors in the ranks of G.O.B.B.L.E. for that.

By the way: yay, Amos! Though I also agree that your words are probably wasted on Last One to Get It. That's why I simply dismiss his kind as assheads.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at December 22, 2003 at 01:41 AM

PS: skimmed Easterbrooks subsequent blog posts: no retraction visible. Yep, it's just gone down the memory hole...

Posted by: Andrea Harris at December 22, 2003 at 01:43 AM

"The capture does not justify the savagery, nor the humiliation. Not by a long shot. The ends do not justify the means. Nor do they justify the staggering, steaming pile of BushCo lies about why we went to war in the first place.

Well does Libya giving up it's WMD (Kdaffy started talking around the start of the war and finished the deal when Saddam was found in a hole) justify the savagery and the humiliation?

A lot of Americans, Brits, and Aussies might think so.

The better the world situation looks the crazier the anti-Bush crowd gets.

The one place he is severely vulnerable - the War On Drug users - they leave virtually untouched despite an American approval of 70 to 80% for medical marijuana.

And the anti-Bushers think Bush is stupid.


Posted by: M. Simon at December 22, 2003 at 02:45 AM

"Gaddafi deal signals end to secret nuclear weapon programme with Iran and North Korea"

Iraq was buying missiles from NK. Any chance they were in on the nuclear program too?

I mean what are the odds?


Posted by: M. Simon at December 22, 2003 at 02:56 AM

"The breakthrough capped a week of positive developments for London and Washington that began with the capture of Saddam Hussein in Iraq and followed with a pledge from Iran to submit to unfettered inspections of its nuclear industry.

Bush implied in his remarks at the White House on Friday that there would now be reciprocity. “As the Libyan government takes these essential steps and demonstrates its seriousness, its good faith will be returned. Libya can regain a secure and respected place among the nations, and over time, achieve far better relations with the United States.”

Of course after all that sensibility the authors end the article with some nonsense about ending Israel's nuclear program.

Sanity is starting to be forced on the left but they are resisting reality as well as they can.

This is not only a great week for Bush. It is also a triumph for the comedy teams of Left and Lefter.

This is the kind of humor that starts in the belly, rises to the heart, and finally fills the head with cries of joy and tears of laughter.

The Iranians are next.

Faster please.

Posted by: M. Simon at December 22, 2003 at 03:04 AM

"Though I also agree that your words are probably wasted on Last One to Get It."

Andrea, if the terrorists succeed, he/she will actually be First One to Get It. :)

Amos -- Outstanding!

Posted by: CGeib at December 22, 2003 at 04:33 AM

Hm. I wrote "voters are not supid." Well of course not, since I have no idea what "supid" means.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at December 22, 2003 at 05:28 AM

If anyone of these "experts" had spend some real time sitting in a military chow hall / dining room / mess tent, they would know that there's always a center-piece turkey decorated with various fruits, vegetables and, in some cases, indiginous plants. Plastic, fake or stage-managed, the Baghdad Bird, wasn't.

I wonder why Clinton's clever antics at the D-day celebrations didn't warrant the same intense scrutiny. You remember... the placing of "random" pebbles on Omaha Beach into the shape of a cross and the straightening of "fallen" flags at the US military cemetery.

Maybe The Left has seen theatrics in the guise of meaningful actions for so long, that they don't recognize the real deal when they see it.

Posted by: TrooperJohnSmith at December 22, 2003 at 08:26 AM

Hey Amos nice post, especially in asserting so emphatically that the individual to whom you addressed it is probably too la-di-da to understand it, no matter how crystal clear the logic and no matter how accurate its depiction of human nature.

The left has always been willfully ignorant of the true condition of human nature, and at certain historical times that ignorance becomes a deadly liability. Post 911 America is one of those times.

Posted by: TomB at December 22, 2003 at 08:28 AM

Agreed, Tom B. There is an other-worldy Utopianism shared by both the loopy left and fascism that makes both creeds very, very dangerous.

The perfectability of humankind - in our lifetime! What you end up getting is Pol Pot. Or Stalin, Mao or Hitler. Take your pick.

Humankind is just fine the way it is.

Posted by: Bob Bunnett at December 22, 2003 at 08:39 AM

It’s true that I was excited about the turkey story before, & was using the word “gobble” frequently here in various formattings, & so on. I may seem to have quieted but in fact I zapped with facts a G.O.B.B.L.E. member in another e-forum, not an undistinguished one though less public, but I can’t go into details. Just know that it happened, that it was sweet, & that none of the mostly leftist audience even tried to contradict me, though they had motive, passion, & opportunity.

Posted by: ForNow at December 22, 2003 at 04:42 PM

I almost think doing such a thorough job on Morford is beneath you. Funny, but- it's shooting fish in a barrel- plastic fish. In a plastic barrel.

Posted by: Tagore Smith at December 22, 2003 at 09:52 PM

That’s how the Left sometimes gets away with it—when others think the Left’s lies too silly &/or obvious to be worth attacking. The Left seems pretty bankrupt & fallen when it battens & fixates on the idea of a plastic turkey. But, as we do against Nazis, so, likewise, hit Commies when they’re up & kick Commies when they’re down. Such is appropriate Dunciadic behavior for people of even the greatest character, competence, sensibility, & intelligence. It’s the only way. Do It For The Children.

Posted by: ForNow at December 23, 2003 at 03:38 AM

Correction, sorry: Such kicking is appropriate Dunciadic behavior...(etc.).

Posted by: ForNow at December 23, 2003 at 03:52 AM

For instance, I think that last night near Columbia University I ruined dinner for a professorial-looking old leftist with expansionist white facial hair at the next table, by joking & laughing about Noam Chomsky’s many years’ apologetics for Pol Pot & the Khmer Rouge. By the look on his face as he glared at me as he rose to join his companions in leaving after finishing dinner.... Remember, there is no “Noam Chomsky” per se, there is only “long-time Khmer Rouge apologist Noam Chomsky.”

Posted by: ForNow at December 23, 2003 at 06:59 AM

My guess is that none of these "plastic turkey" theorists have bothered to actually look at the picture. Do you see the bowing of that platter? If that was a plastic turkey, it must have had a real one inside for ballast. Morons!

Posted by: Bill at December 23, 2003 at 10:10 AM

All of you who responded can say we're safer but you don't say how.

Napoleon got his second chance and people died because of it. Saddam will not get his second change and lives will be saved because of it. Wait - a - minute -- maybe you're right -- I don't feel any safer, it's just those jarheads, grunts, and Iraqi civilians who are now safer. Who cares about them? Damn you, Bush, for catching Saddam, damn you to hell. And thank you, Last One Speaks, for helping me find my inner (selfish) child...

Posted by: Tongue Boy at December 23, 2003 at 11:49 AM

A few days ago I wrote to suggesting they add this to their urban legends list. So far, nothing.

Posted by: Tim Shell at December 23, 2003 at 01:44 PM

I truly feel sorry for you, Last One - while everyone is entitled to their own opinion, they are not entitled to their own set of facts.

If I found myself on the same side as OBL, et al., I'd take that as an indication that maybe, just maybe, I was looking at things wrong.

Posted by: BradDad at December 23, 2003 at 01:51 PM

BradDad - great quote (Senator Moynihan, I believe - one of the last reasonable democrat senators).

It's incredible how much the Left embraces New Age mumbo-jumbo like healing crystals, Feng Shui, channeling, Tibetan Prayer Rugs, and astral projection, but Bush carrying a turkey must somehow be a FAKE.

I can't wait to see Joe Wilson and his phony "secret" spy wife try to discredit Lybia's renouncement of WMD. Or have they started already?

a href="">Here it is

Posted by: Cooper at December 23, 2003 at 02:02 PM

Let's try that again:


Posted by: Cooper at December 23, 2003 at 02:05 PM

These comments are awesome. It's like watching a piranha feeding frenzy. Fisking is too mild a term.

Posted by: AST at December 23, 2003 at 03:10 PM

Thank you Jerry for maintaining a civilized tone among all this shouting. I'm honestly trying to understand the chasm between our perceptions here.

1. I agree that Saddam being deposed and captured is beneficial on a psychological level and I'm happy for whatever comfort and peace of mind it will bring to the people he has harmed directly and indirectly. I just don't see it as having in any way solved the suffering of the Iraqi people today and it's not going to end the war.

2. You may have been looking at this as a ten year project but as I recall, Mr. Bush sold it initially as an 1.7 billion dollar investment with a short term ground engagement. Did you forget all that Rove-ian imagery about the grateful masses throwing roses to the liberating troops?

As far as Afghanistan, you can discount Osama but he is far more dangerous than Saddam. He actually is a terrorist, not a sitting duck who deluded himself into thinking that he was invulnerable in his fine palace.

That aside, The Taliban by all accounts are rising and the country is in the hands of narco-terrorists according to the Asia Times.

This from the Christian Broadcasting Network:

But Yasini says the huge drug profits are funding terrorist attacks against coalition forces in Afghanistan. "I am getting very credible reports that today the drug traffickers are directly supporting Al Qaeda, are directly supporting the Taliban," he said.

And this quote buried in a piece from an expired link that Glenn Reynolds posted a couple of weeks ago.

Karzai's government has little control outside the capital. Much of the country is controlled by warlords, and resurgent Taliban rebels have stepped up attacks in the south and east in recent months. Many officials believe that national elections scheduled for June will have to be postponed because of the security situation.

Sorry but I can't spin this as a success story.

3. I apologize for the snarky crack about cowering but you can't deny the ironic parallel. Your point about Kennedy is well taken but I might point out that part of what made him a great leader was his demonstrated courage.

Last One Speaks

Posted by: Last One Speaks at December 23, 2003 at 04:16 PM

Amos, as an ex-muslim, I have to say that your last post could not be more correct. Generally, Westerners do not know how muslim "dissidents" think, but you got it dead right.

Many muslims (radical or not) were secretly glad on 12 September 2003 as they believe that the USA got their comeuppance. Nowadays they are not so sure anymore after seeing the strong response from USA.

Posted by: rainier at December 23, 2003 at 04:23 PM

In response to the rest of you who feel you can make your point with ad hominem attacks, I didn't take it personally but nonetheless I'll leave you now with a few words.

To those who want to kill all the terrorists, I assume you're posting from a bunker in Tikrit. It's easier to preach death from a comfortable chair in your own safe home than it is to face it on the ground. US soldiers died and were maimed in Iraq today. And they will be tomorrow and the next day. Are you ready to join them?

To M. Simon, I would do my research before I made disparaging remarks about political focus. Last One Speaks is about the drug war. And btw, Last One Speaks is not a threat, it's an invitation. I post any reasonable political view, right or left.

I came here to learn about Iraq. Instead I got an education on plastic turkeys. Not what I had in mind but no time spent in gaining knowledge is wasted.

So, I'd like to thank you all for your cordial hospitality and a special thanks to TomB for your most eloquent insights on the left. I'll be giving you the quote of the day in an upcoming edition.

It's been fun,

Last One Speaks

Posted by: Last One Speaks at December 23, 2003 at 05:13 PM

"last one speaks" sounds like the chickenhawk lunchboy dude!. you get that computer out of hock ben butler?

Posted by: roscoe.p.coltrane at December 23, 2003 at 07:58 PM

WMD? Does it matter whether they were there or not? Wasn't the desire for them evident? Didn't the UN establish resolutions that could be easily adhered to? Didn't Saddam ignore terms of surrender?!?! By not complying, didn't Saddam imply that he had WMD? Did this not create a great burden on his neighbors and the region and, to a degree, the world (not even considering the human element--murders etc.)? Do WMD's exist in Iraq?(probably) Did they?(yes) Would they have in the future?(yes)

Was Saddam bluffing? Yes, unless the weapons actually do exist. Should that matter to us? NO! If WMD do not exist in Iraq, it exhibits a weakness in our intelligence: we failed to realize that we were mislead by Saddam. If the that is the case, is acting on that information more of a failure than not acting?!?!

We cannot, in the immediate future, depose every dictator. But, if we, and the people of such a ravaged country, and the world would benefit greatly from such an action, not acting would be a moral failure.

Posted by: aaron at December 23, 2003 at 08:10 PM

Latte One Speaks: oh I see. You're just another pompous asshead. Let's count the ways:

1. You don't see how the capture of Saddam made the Iraqi people safer. That is because you are an asshead.

2. Bush "sold the war as a short-term groundwar" only in your head, which is an ass.

3. Osama bin Laden is dead, so the only people he can "terrorize" are assheads like you.

And the fact that Afghanistan is still not Ohio east is a surprise to no one but assheads like you.

There. That was an ad hominem attack, if you like. It was also true.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at December 23, 2003 at 09:41 PM


re: comments to Latte One Speaks

Right on- when someone sounds like an asshead, they usually are an asshead.

Posted by: Phil Winsor at December 23, 2003 at 10:16 PM

To those who want to kill all the terrorists, I assume you're posting from a bunker in Tikrit. It's easier to preach death from a comfortable chair in your own safe home than it is to face it on the ground. US soldiers died and were maimed in Iraq today. And they will be tomorrow and the next day. Are you ready to join them?

No. They signed up (willingly, no draft here) so I could sit here in my comfy-chair and not have to (not to mention I'm too old and fat to). Praise and honor to them!

To those who want to kill all the terrorists, I assume you're posting from a bunker in Tikrit.

No, posting from homes (and maybe businesses...naughty time-stealin' workers!) that don't want to die or submit to their ideology.

These people want to kill us, and that us includes you, Last One.

It's not a movie, or a computer game, or an internet discussion. This is your life.

3000+ died when they rammed planes full of innocents into the financial capital of the's a miracle that tens of thousands didn't die.

Not only did they cut Danny Pearl's head off, they released a videotape of the murder.


Our lives, our families, yes, our property is at stake here.

Maybe you don't have much to lose here, Last One, but most do.

Posted by: Timothy L at December 24, 2003 at 03:24 PM

Hmm, let me think a bit.

G.O.B.B.L.E.= Grand Order (of the) Bouncing Bobbleheaded Leftist Eggheads.

Feel free to use the full title or improve upon it.

(email spam-protected in a fairly obvious manner.)

Posted by: B. Durbin at December 26, 2003 at 08:07 AM

Notice how so many GOBBLE members are in northern California? SF, Oakland, Beserkly, Marin, Sonoma, etc. were just made for that sort of thing. Pretty little gardens of make-believe. You gotta love northern Cali for being the perfect mental vacationland: that's just where you go when you want to take a little break from reality and live in your own special loonatarium.

Posted by: Sergio at December 26, 2003 at 09:45 AM