November 17, 2003
TRUST SOUGHT
The 2003 Listening Tour of the US is almost at an end. In recent days I've mostly been listening to the outstanding violence of snowbound musicians and writers trapped in Mammoth Lakes, California. Ken Layne was involved, of course.
Meanwhile the Sydney Morning Herald continues its own slide toward madness. Robert Manne predicts nothing but doom for Iraq, regardless of whether US troops stay or go:
If they depart relatively soon, Iraq will almost certainly descend into chaos of a fearful kind. To remain will be terrible; to leave probably worse.
Remember pre-war Iraq, when there was no chaos at all, let alone chaos "of a fearful kind"? Just friendly Saddam and Uday and Qusay giving candy to the children and helping old ladies cross the street. Glory days! Manne prays for their swift return. I myself can't wait to get back to Australia and Margo Kingston, who recently was accused of a form of anti-Semitism:
The Sydney Morning Herald spectrum editor, Michael Visontay, in a deeply felt and honest piece, argued in the SMH today that several commentators, including myself, were legitimising anti-semetism.
Legitimise it? Margo can't even spell it. (The Visontay piece, by the way, is worth reading.) In related illiteracy news, Margo's own newspaper has forgotten how to spell her name:
Contradictory statements from the Government about 14 Kurdish boat people have Margot Kingston's web correspondents angry.
Margo with a 't'? Only an idio would make such a mistake! The error has opened new faultlines in Margo's mind. Check it:
G'day. How are we supposed to make sense of anything when the Government lies, quite casually, about the latest refugee landing, just as everything it assured us about Iraq - despite overwhelming military, intelligence, political and academic advice - turns out to be false and dangerous to us and our children?
It's beyond me, so here's a sample of the thoughts of Web Diary readers during another incomprehensible and seriously scary week in Australian and world politics. Where the hell is a trustworthy leader to explain it all and reassure us that we're in safe hands? Maybe no leader can save us now. Maybe we have to concentrate and save ourselves.
Concentrate, Magoo! Or whatever your name is. Save yourself, at least until such time as a trustworthy leader emerges to tell us we're in safe hands. Hey, maybe I can do it ... let's try:
You Are In Safe Hands! Please Return To Your Bewilderment!
Kinda works, doesn't it? I may run for the office of Trustworthy Leader as soon as I get back. Should be in Sydney by Wednesday.
Posted by Tim Blair at November 17, 2003 09:08 PMMaybe no leader can save us now. Maybe we have to concentrate and save ourselves.
And remember to brush after meals sweetie.
Posted by: papertiger at November 17, 2003 at 10:11 PMtim, i liked it better when you were ignoring margo. shooting fish in a barrel, this is.
Posted by: roop at November 17, 2003 at 10:13 PMManne prays for their swift return.
Err ... I read the article too, and I was pretty sure that Manne didn't pray for Queasy and Ebay's swift return. But how wrong I was! Check this excerpt:
"How I wish the US troops would leave. But even more, I really wish the Hussain kiddies would come back! They were so great! I pray for their speedy return. With prayer. In fact, I'm praying right now. Come back boys!"
So there you go, mea culpa.
Meanwhile, perhaps Martgo will admit mandatory detention is 100% BRILLIANT after the US unveiled its
new policy of body searching the hordes of evil New Idea journos entering the country. Bravo USA! I look forward to the imminent liberation of all the magazines in the Pacific Publications stable from their extremist espots.
Margo with a T.
"The t is silent, as in Harlow"
Said by Margot Asquith to Jean Harlow, who had been mispronouncing her name,
Perhaps "Margot" is a misspelling of "Maggot."
Miss Spelling. Tori? Izzat you?
Posted by: Ric at November 17, 2003 at 11:21 PMJoe, I believe the article was mistaken. Ms. Smethurst was refused entry but detainment was at the hands of the fashion police, who interrogated her over that hat.
"Trustworthy Leader"? Will you be anything like "Fearless Leader"? The monocle would make you especially fearsome. That and the Iron Cross. Bring it, homey!!
Posted by: Tongue Boy at November 18, 2003 at 12:34 AM
was is los, "bewilderment?" I think you mean, "bewildermen."
Posted by: Bovious at November 18, 2003 at 01:41 AMYou'll be back Wednesday? That's June in American dollars, right?
Posted by: Joe G. at November 18, 2003 at 03:20 AM"Maybe no leader can save us now. Maybe we have to concentrate and save ourselves."
I thought Margo was a citizen of a democracy where people take it for granted that they have responsibility for their own lives and choosing their temporary leaders. Is she saying she'd be much more comfortable under a strongman like Uzbekistan's or Tadjikistan's?
Posted by: Mike G at November 18, 2003 at 05:18 AMSorry, I left the “s” off the “tell,” tried to fix it, & ended up adding everything else but that.
Posted by: ForNow at November 18, 2003 at 07:01 AMMargot, Magot, Maggot, Margoid, Marigold, stupid bitch. Who cares?
Posted by: Kate at November 18, 2003 at 07:17 AMCompulsory body searches and mandatory detention (preferably at Guantanamo)for Aussie journalists is a brilliant policy as a means of ensuring that they actually experience what they claim to be writing about. Thus, no journalist of any integrity can refuse to volunteer for this new boot camp program, starting with Margo, Robert Manne, Philip Adams, etc
Posted by: Rob (No 1) at November 18, 2003 at 08:14 AMReferring to her as "Magoo" seems strangely appropriate
Posted by: Catch22 at November 18, 2003 at 08:17 AM'Where the hell is a trustworthy leader to explain it all and reassure us that we're in safe hands?'
She sounds like Jehovah's Witness fodder to me. Easy pickings.
Posted by: papertiger at November 18, 2003 at 08:44 AMmanne's article is so pompous as to cause violent inhalation of breakfast cereal y'day upon reading. dammnit! still bits of bran & apricot lodged down there somewhere.
margo's web-diary continues to attract some very fine correspondents from all over the world, and is a better read now than it ever was. ms kingston herself plays the role of lightning rod rather well. but i don't particularly read her, lots of those who contribute are well worth the read. some aren't.
and the 5th most substantial source of visitors to her site last month - this very site. tim, are you secretly spruiking for her?
Posted by: chico o'farrill at November 18, 2003 at 09:21 AMIf you were to awake from a coma after two years to be told that:
(a) the US had invaded both Afghanistan and Iraq in the interim, and
(b) that bin Laden and Saddam were both still unaccounted for, and probably still inciting terrorism;
you would probably regard that as a disastrous result. And so it is - thus far. Both invasions were meant to be head-lopping operations, resulting in a reduction in terrorism and illegal movement of armaments and funds to potential terrorist organisations and states.
Nevertheless, both invasions remain entirely justified. The left may revel in the lack of success to this point, and even - evilly - revel in the steadily rising death toll. But slow progress and setbacks should not blind anyone to the necessity of the task.
It is generally acknowledged that Clinton failed on national security. The Bush administration is now doing the dirty work, and troops from several democratic nations are now in harm's way in order that Democrats - and all non-terrorist states - can have a safe homeland as well.
Posted by: ilibcc at November 18, 2003 at 10:07 AMThe Visontay piece is good. I love the statements by Magrot and others: "Someone stop those pushy Jews before they turn me into an anti-semite!"
Posted by: kid charlemagne at November 18, 2003 at 10:17 AMI am glad others thought that Manne's article was pretty outrageous. He quotes the death rate when Saddam was in power and measures it against the current one. Ummmm is he basing that on "official" government figures??? The government of Saddam. Does he not see a slight problem in that, maybe just a little itty bitty problem? What a fcukwit - I believe that is the way that you spell it these days? At least that is what I am seeing on various people's clothes and aftershave??
Posted by: Rob at November 18, 2003 at 10:47 AMYes, Rob, that label is everywhere, it is in very bad taste.
Incidentally, there was once a King of England, who reigned from 1016 to 1035 AD, who had a rather similar idea for a name.
Both invasions were meant to be head-lopping operations, resulting in a reduction in terrorism and illegal movement of armaments and funds to potential terrorist organisations and states.
The official reason Iraq was invaded because it refused to comply with the UN resolution to get rid of their WMDs.
Nevertheless, both invasions remain entirely justified.
They sure do! But only one was a head lopping operation. Or at least, only one was justified _at the time_ as a head lopping operation.
The left may revel in the lack of success to this point, and even - evilly - revel in the steadily rising death toll.
Comrade, I can assure you there are none more left than me. I can also assure you I am not revelling in any lack of success.
Posted by: Joe at November 18, 2003 at 11:34 AMJoe, you might be left, but you're not loopy left like this guy:
'Ken Livingstone, the Mayor of London, launched a stinging attack on President George Bush last night, denouncing him as the "greatest threat to life on this planet that we've most probably ever seen".'
From The Guardian. Nice one Ken, just when George W. Bush is your guest.
Posted by: ilibcc at November 18, 2003 at 12:02 PMmanne's article is so pompous as to cause violent inhalation of breakfast cereal y'day upon reading.
You inhaled Yday Hussain?? GROSS!! Robert Manne prays for the swift return of Yday from this misadventure.
Posted by: Joe at November 18, 2003 at 12:13 PMIf there's anyone looking for martyrdom, how about volunteering for the cavity search of Phillip Adams? You would never return alive from that mission, even if you could.
Posted by: Habib at November 18, 2003 at 12:30 PMI read Visontay's piece while chewing on a slice of lemon, and came away thinking that the lemon was the sweeter of the two experiences.
It was just so much more drooling apologetica on behalf of the International Israelite Corporation (IIC). Why is it that so many conservative (Gentile or otherwise) advocates feel a burning desire to share the all-too-public-sufferings of the Chosen People? Believe me, if there is a group of people on Earth that doesn't require Gentiles to jabber fawningly on their behalf, its the Jews.
And the way they make professional use of the perpetual victim perception is just plain nauseating. That people as (otherwise) intellent as Tim Blair or Michael Visontay fall for it is just plain depressing.
Australians and Americans need to look out for their own nation's interests and not blindly or uncritically prop up a little coastal strip of land that only produces submachine guns and assassins of any real quality.
Israeli patriots look out for Israel's interests first. Being a good consevative patriot ought to mean looking out for Australia's or America's interests in a similar manner.
And don't try to hit me with the lame-o "Anti-Semite" or "Arabist monkey-lover" stick either. I dislike the Jews as much as I do all other human beings, and the Arabs I like even less.
Oooh, aren't you the brave one, Mr. Talismann. The "I'm a misanthrope so you can't call me a bigot" defense is just so unexpected that we are all silent in awe before your superior intellect and in-depth understanding of the World As it Really Is. It is only with the deepest trepidation that I dare to even remark upon your Solon-like pronouncements.
By the way, I wouldn't dream of calling you an anti-Semite. Anti-Semites actually have the balls to stand by their pet hatred. You're just a grubby little opportunistic troll.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at November 18, 2003 at 02:02 PMOh little Timmy's playing with himself again. All upset at Margo for not playing to the same song sheet as Timmy Boy.
And just which song sheet shall we all sing from Timmy.
please please please tell me what I should think and not think. Only you Timmy Boy know right from wrong and only you little Timmy can make sure I think right.
Your political correctness is such a laugh.
Posted by: Peter Richardson at November 18, 2003 at 03:02 PMHey ForNow. Looks like you are a typical brain dead right winger. Can't spell properly. Can't operate a keyboard properly. But always got your cake hole open spewing out more drible.
Why are right wing thugs like you do dumb.
Posted by: Peter Richardson at November 18, 2003 at 03:12 PMTim's politically correct? Are you sure you have the right bloke?
Posted by: unit at November 18, 2003 at 03:16 PMBy the way PR, its "dribble" not "drible". One should always be careful when criticising another's spelling.
Posted by: unit at November 18, 2003 at 03:20 PMSo Tim, just when is the war going to start.
Looks like the bad guys are still winning.
Can you explain just why it's so hard to get saddie's head on a plate
And when the US toll hits 1000 are you going admit then that your team screwd up.
2 trillion dollars later and the bad guys are still alive and killing the good guys.
Aren't you at all concerned that the pre war intellegince was so wrong, and that years later OBL is still alive, and SH is just as much alive.
You rant on about the failures of everyone else you think is wrong.
Isn't it about time you had a good hard look at just what your hero president Bush has actually achieved.
Your team fucked up. And now we are going to show you and your right wing wacko mates the door, and it is going to be just so much fun......
Posted by: Peter Richardson at November 18, 2003 at 03:20 PMI'm with you mike. I'm no fan of the jews either but if it's a choice between them and those creepy muslims, I'll take the jews any day. (I can't believe in this day and age we are reduced to thinking in these terms).
Posted by: Knucky at November 18, 2003 at 03:25 PM"Drible"? Wot's "drible," Precious? Is it good to eat? Is it scrumptious? Is it tasty?
By the way, Mr. Michael Talismann sent me a snotty email demanding that I tell you that he is banned -- yesss, Precious, banned! He's not allowed to comment here, boohoowahhh, and has to go whine on his own blog. You may all go visit him there; god forbid I not be Democratic and make sure he gets just as many hit counts as everyone else!
Oh, did I forget the url? Bad me.
I'd take out Richardson too, but I've got kind of a soft spot in my heart for retards.
Anyway, here is Michael Talisman's email and my reply. Enjoyment! The mice will play, etc.:
HereticalMoment@aol.com wrote:> Ms Harris,
>
> How you do disappoint. Surely it is the people that we complain about in the world; the Saddam's, the Osama's the Kim Jong Il's and so on, that are the champions of suppression. Democracy is about dissent Andrea, not just conformation. Nearly 80% of the posts made to Tim's site are just so much mumbled, sometimes profane agreements. "Here,'here!" and so forth. Is Tim or yourself so insecure that you cannot tolerate or respond calmly to those that do not agree with your opinions?
>
> You didn't agree with what I said, fine. But I was not racist, nor was I abusive, or profane. Now, I realise that a blog is not a democracy, and you can do as your tyrannical heart desires. But at least feign an ethical position by declaring on the relevant comments page that I have been banned, and therefore am unable to rebutt any remarks made subsequently.
>
> Please, do feel free to view and comment on the response that I would have made to your post, on my site at principlesofpragmatism.blogspot.com
>
> I am funny in that I like to allow a bit of disscussion and some serious conversational degredation before I stick my Hitler boot in.
>
> Sincerely,
> Michael Talismann.
Like I said, boohoowahhh. Here's my reply:
Dear Mr. Talismann,Just giving you all a head's up, for those one or two of you who cared who might have been wondering why Mighty Mike hadn't had a swift comeback. He's busy hunting down a url to spoof or begging to use his dad's computer, so it'll be a while I'm sure. Posted by: Andrea Harris at November 18, 2003 at 03:26 PMI pay for and maintain this website; you don't. I figure that gives me pretty much the right to do whatever the hell I want with it. In other words, your pompous blatherings about "democracy" are meaningless in this context. The only opinion re the running/maintenance/content of said website and the blogs thereon that are of any concern to me are 1) mine, and 2) the persons whose blogs I maintain. The opinions of regular readers, much less nasty little trolls like yourself, are of no consequence whatsoever.
Oh by the way, I won't be visiting your blog. Nice try.
Andrea Harris
PS: the correct phrase is "Hear hear!"
And by the way, don't email me again. I will simply delete your email unread.
Sure, Richardson, Saddam and Bin Laden are both alive, and both mysteriously unable to read stock market numbers or yesterday's headlines to prove it on tape or video.
Uh, yeah, knucky, I can't believe that in this day and age you think it's okay to go about thinking "in those terms." And who is this "we", white man? What did the Jews ever do to you? "I'm no fan of Jews" -- they aren't a fricking football team, for chrissakes.
I suppose the argument is the same tiresome one I always hear from Jewhaters -- oh, excuse me, "all the human race but especially those annoying jews haters" -- is the one where the Jews are "pushy," "rude," "clannish," and so on -- unlike the whole rest of the wonderful hugs and puppies and interactive diversity-filled world. And this supposedly justifies the "Okay, what happened to the Jews at such-and-such a time was terrible but" phrase where the anti-Semite wannabe slides out of actually coming out and saying he secretly cheers each time a bus full of Israeli grandmas blows up -- which only happens, of course, because "the settlers, they are so mean to the poor Palestinians" who don't have a country except for all of Jordan and half of Egypt. But details, details, who cares about all that stuff! What is important is you aren't going to be pushed around by that guy at the deli anymore! You know, did it ever occur to you that the Jews, some of them, are a little bit cranky because, you know, so many people keep trying to exterminate them, and then have the balls to chide them for getting upset about it? If I get mad because some of you numbnuts try to treat this website like a public urinal, imagine how happy I'd be if someone blew up my country's buildings and killed thousands of my people and then some assholes had the nerve to scold me for losing my temper and complaining about it, much less trying to put a stop to it. Oh -- wait --
Posted by: Andrea Harris at November 18, 2003 at 03:44 PMFrom hereon in, I am to be known as Andrea's Bidet.
Posted by: Andrea's bitch at November 18, 2003 at 03:59 PMWasn't it only a few short years back that Margo was best mates with Pauline "Bea Smith" Hanson, even having girlie sleepovers on PH's floor while MK was trekking around the country giving us (supposedly) impartial coverage of One Nation's election campaigning?
Ah, well, whoever's best placed at the time to foil the wicked Jews and the nefarious Americans and their wicked capitalistic globalising plans, I guess.
Posted by: Noami Kleimpsky at November 18, 2003 at 04:16 PMHA-HA , Michael Talismann de-linked Tim.B . He's got to be pretty delusional if he thinks that is some sort of grand gesture.
Posted by: Gary at November 18, 2003 at 04:35 PMTIMBO IN NEW TYPO-SPOTTING EXPOSE!!
World scoop.
Rather than confront the fact that Iraq is all fucked up, Timbo whitters on about typos and spelling mistakes.
Here's a hint Tim: Iraq is all fucked up.
It used to be Saddam's fault. Now it's yours. (That's "you" in a generic, plural sense, lest you feel unduly persecuted).
Serious question, Tim - do you have anything of substance to say about the fuckedup-ness of Iraq? Clearly Manne and Kingston do, and clearly you will continue to disparage their positions. But your position is what, exactly?
I don't suppose there was ever much doubt, but in the absence of evidence to the contrary, one can only conclude that you are the ultimate man of straw. Seldom has one with so little to say been able to inflict so much piffle on so many for so long.
Here's a slogan if you're standing for election as Trusted Leader: TIMMY BLAIR - PUTTING THE CON INTO NEOCON!
Posted by: Nemesis at November 18, 2003 at 04:56 PMI pay for and maintain this website
You pay for Tim Blair's website? Make the bludger pay for it himself! Sheesh.
Also, Andrea: blocking people is OK with me, it's your website after all. Blocking people and then dumping all over them is pretty lame.
Posted by: Joe at November 18, 2003 at 05:10 PMI pay for and maintain this website
You pay for Tim Blair's website? Make the bludger pay for it himself! Sheesh.
From Comments page for previous article: AH: Ah, I see numbers boy is back and shilling for his boyfriend Joe. Who by the way is tied up under my desk right now. A little more to the left, darling... thanks.
Remember 156976834, or whatever your number is, you have an appointment with me and Miss Lash at 3pm this coming Saturday.
Now you all know the secret of their, um, "irritation." Such naughty boys. They know that they will be punished, yet they just can't stop. Right, "Miranda"?
I ... see. You're weird.
Little white girl Andrea is all upset. Good. Get upset Andrea 'cause it's just so funny when you rant and rant about your little pissy blog site. Look at the scum you attrack. Jew haters, Homophobes, gun lovers, and all manner of right wing wackos.
Posted by: Peter Richardson at November 18, 2003 at 07:04 PMIraq is doing fine. 80% of the country is calm and progressing well. The militants are waging a futile bombing campagne in the sunni triangle that is infuriating the majority of the population and turning them even more against the terrorists.
In 6 months the US presence will be wound back, the Shia will have a free hand to exterminate the Baathist reminants and Iraq will be on it's way to being a regional power and the first Arab democracy.
All this has Bush wrought, while you little leftist bitches cried and moaned from the sidelines. History will not be kind to you.
History will remember Bush as a great liberator and a crusher of Islamic barbarism, it will remember your buddy Clinton as a sleezy fuck too busy getting his dick sucked by 20-year-old interns and lying about it to pay attention to Al-Qaeda. Shit, he couldn't even pass health reform.
And you morons with the giant puppets? You'll go down as cowards, liars and fools who danced and shrieked in the street in the support of terrorists and dictators.
Freedome for Iraq, not in your name, you goddamn scum.
Posted by: Amos at November 18, 2003 at 07:05 PMThis Margot with a "t" has no wish to be confused with the Margo without...
Posted by: Margot Lee at November 18, 2003 at 07:44 PM"Attrack"?
Congrats, Joe, on hacking into your little sister's Hello Kitty pc.
Ah, Nemesis, you've come to bore us again, wearing your witlessness on your sleeve. There is something endearing in the way you keep plodding into arguments with the verbal equivalent of moon boots on the beach. By the way -- speaking of spelling mistakes -- it's spelled "witters." As in "He witters on endlessly about how awful Tim Blair is. We wish he would get a life."
Posted by: Andrea Harris at November 18, 2003 at 08:45 PMJoe
I don't just give with the occasional hear hear.
If you check my posts after, complaining that Tax payer funded television is one of the worst ideas from a government ever, I proceeded to give travel advisory, examples of said tax funded documentarys and salutations when Tim came out of his Casino imposed blackout.
I realize that I might not be one of the mumbling "hear, hear" 80% you were refering to, but I have noticed that 'Joe' is the name attached to 80% of the bitching on this site.
If you really want to find a bit of back slapping mutual mental masturbation with nary a dissident to be found, visit WWW.Democraticunderground.org /
Those people even have a disclaimer screen where you have to sign away your option to dissagree before you can post - on pain of excommunication from the cult of bigger government.
PT: Joe - I don't just give with the occasional hear hear. If you check my posts after, complaining that Tax payer funded television is one of the worst ideas from a government ever, I proceeded to give travel advisory, examples of said tax funded documentarys and salutations when Tim came out of his Casino imposed blackout.
Err ... Michael! I think he's talking to _you_.
AH: Congrats, Joe, on hacking into your little sister's Hello Kitty pc.
Thanks! [Pauses.] Alright, I'll get my coat.
Posted by: Joe at November 18, 2003 at 09:21 PMWell after taking out the rubbish, how about an inspirational moment from the land of Microsoft?
There are a bunch of 'hear hear's in the comment section.
Nemesis,
Here's a newsflash for you: Iraq has been fucked up for as long as it has been Iraq but is now relatively less fucked up than your posts.
Posted by: S Whiplash at November 18, 2003 at 10:39 PMyeah right Amos that sound of black hawks hitting the ground... must be the sound of spontanious democracy breaking out all over the mideast... Andrea, you are soooo piss weak.
Posted by: dunidid at November 18, 2003 at 11:01 PMdunidid, June 6, 1944:
"yeah right Amos that sound of marines dying on the beach... must be the sound of spontanious democracy breaking out all over the continent..."
In other words - precisely, you retard. Sucks, but, that's what it costs.
Posted by: E.A. at November 19, 2003 at 06:02 AM
Anybody who believes that pin-prick attacks, a few bombings, and the occasional downed helicopter is "fucked up" compared to mass graves, mass torture, and pulling twelve-year-old girls out of class to be raped and tortured by a psychopath is so utterly disconnected from any semblance of logic and reality that he should be pitied, or at least politely avoided, like a shambling schizophrenic muttering angrily to himself on the street.
I am endlessly amazed how certain people really want the Coalition forces in Iraq to suffer casualties, and for that country to be a quagmire of hate and destruction, just to provide the naysayers with some sick satisfaction that the President of US has not had a victory. But of course he has. Not only has he had the nads to actually do something, what he has done has been extremely effective. He has taken the fight to the enemy and made it clear that the powers that be in the West will not accept the islamo-facists existance. And all this despite the nancy boy lefties who were all oviously picked on in the playground for being the wimps they still are and never got over it.
Lefties surely are sad sickos if their partisanship extends so far as to wish for their side to lose evry confrontation it is involved in. For them it seem we in the West must always give in to those lovely people in the third world. "The West is always wrong" may as well be the catch cry of the soft cocks of the left.
Well the good news is that most of us have seen through the pseudo-intellectual bilge that lefties call argument, and we know that the West is usually right and that the third world types who hate us are just about as wrong as anyone can be.
Hey Toryhere. It's not that I want Iraq to fail, it's just that I want right wing fucks like you to fuck off.
Iraq will not fail because of what I think, it will fail because GWB is a moron so far out of his depth it's a wonder they haven't sent deep sea divers out to find him yet.
Iraq is going to descend into civil war, and tens of thousands more are going to die. All that is going to come out of Iraq is a dangerously weakened America that will be left thrashing around with its advanced war technology but fewer and fewer people to operate it.
This is the beginning of the end of America. By the time this war is over, America will have sold trillions of dollars in debt to China, and regarded by more and more people as yesterday's empire. Georgie boy has worked overtime to destroy America and it looks like it will be his lasting legacy.
the comments seem to be decending into a swirl of lonely people dashed together in cyber space. by the way, where is australia?
Posted by: somebody at November 19, 2003 at 08:06 AMPeter Richardson,
Got the rag on real bad this month, don't you, Sugar Plum? So change your tampon (discard without eating), memorize a bit more Chomsky -- and repeat "Georgie is a moron" at least a thousand more times. That way, when the greatest president since Ronald Reagan wipes the floor once again with the special-ed grade-school left, you'll still be every bit as baffled as you've been about everything else in life since your mother passed on the congenital syphilis that has eaten the wallnut-sized brain you were born with.
Alternately, since that's a relatively complicated list of chores for a simpleton, here's an easier assignment: suck a dog's arse. You won't be able to tell the difference from Chomsky latest's secretion of smegma, it will keep you quiet, and the dog will enjoy the encounter -- probably the first joy you've brought to this world since your father waved his warty wand in a sloppy hole and left a load of pimp seed for the taxpayers to subsidize through the rest of your retarded life.
Posted by: suberboot at November 19, 2003 at 09:05 AM
"If I get mad because some of you numbnuts try to treat this website like a public urinal..."
If this is a public urinal, Andrea Harris needs to take a couple of incontinence tablets.
Whose blog is this anyway?
Posted by: Rob Dean at November 19, 2003 at 09:12 AMLooks like the bad guys are still winning.
Uh-huh, Peter. Whenever I try to figure out who is winning a war, I always look for the guy who has had his army destroyed, has been driven from his capitol, and who never sleeps in the same place twice while scurrying about dressed as a woman.
Posted by: R C Dean at November 19, 2003 at 09:56 AMHey, R.C.? It's a blog on a server I pay for and that I maintain. If you don't like it both you and Richardson can "fuck off," as he so sweetly put it.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at November 19, 2003 at 10:01 AMAmerica is bogged down in Iraq with some 130,000 troops. 50 attacks a day, more dead kids from the mid west every day. A debt binge that will put America in hock to China for decades, A president who spends more time talking to wealthly donors than working. America will be gone soon from Iraq and what then. Admit your hero president fucked up big time.
Posted by: Peter Richardson at November 19, 2003 at 10:12 AMRe the predictions of doom in Iraq: setting aside the Left v Right animosity for a moment (my god, you could cut the air with a knife), let's say Iraq goes pear-shaped and America is humiliated. All things are possible, it's just that the Right hopes it doesn't happen as much as the Left hopes it does.
OK. What should the Left have originally done about Iraq, had the call been theirs to make?
Continued on with the UN WMD search charade (remember Hans Blix - what a totally ineffectual and useless 15 minutes of fame that was)?
Nothing?
Foment an internal revolution?
Or what?
Putting the question in a more pertinent manner, what will the Left recommend should the American liberation fail and the Allies are forced to leave, as many on the Left are suggesting will happen?
Allow Iraq to figure it out for themselves?
Install a UN-led Government? Led by whom? And with what percentage Iraq governance? Comprising which ethnic and religious groupings? And policed by what body initially until order is installed?
Constructive answers please, the abuse thing is overdone.
Posted by: ilibcc at November 19, 2003 at 10:36 AM130,000 troops is bogged down? effectively one division in the field, the rest logistics and support personnel; a few of these people need to do a little historical rather than hysterical research. The sausage-eaters lost an entire ARMY over less than twelve months in one city, Stalingrad, and were far from beaten despite fighting on three fronts.
You dolts regard the only superpower on earth having about one hundreth of their manpower on the ground in a mopping up operation on some poorly trained fanatics clinging to the last vestige of power they have as "quagmire"?
Yes, and the Israeli defence force really lost the battle of Jenin, and got theeir arse kicked in the six day and the Yom Kippur wars.
(You wish).
Sorry, Petey, I don't argue with 'tards. It's cruel.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at November 19, 2003 at 11:04 AMMargot again huh? When will Mr Cut & Paste realise... no one is listening!
Posted by: Miranda Divide at November 19, 2003 at 11:29 AMPeter Richardson
mmm, America sending aid to China and buying goods from China = America being "in hock" to China?.
Posted by: Gary at November 19, 2003 at 11:55 AMPoor lefties, they always lose every argument they start. Maybe it's because they feel rather than think.
I seem to remeber these same people telling us that the invasion of Iraq was going to cause thousands of civilian deaths, with masses of refugees fleeing to surrounding countries. The Americans were going to be fighting their way to Bagdad for months and were going to take thousands of casualties every day before breakfast. Well Mr Richardson, you were wrong then, and you are wrong now.
Posted by: Toryhere at November 19, 2003 at 12:28 PMWhat would the Left have done about Iraq? Cut military spending and put it into health and education.
What would the Left do now? Pay their dues to the UN, put in a multi-national peace-keeping force under a UN flag and begin the path to elections on the East Timor model.
And what of the Right? Your hand finally forced after 12 years, you've had the guts to "do something" about Iraq? Someone had to do something, didn;t they? I mean it was urgent! Now I'm very keen to hear your plans for Zimbabwe, Congo, Sudan, Pakistan, Syria, Burma, Nth Korea... oh, yes and China? What's your game plan for China? Despotic regimes in all of those countries. Atrocities being committed every day. Urgent, urgent, urgent! Better get in now! Regime change needed and you've got the job. Only a matter of time before PAkistan, for instance, uses it's bomb. Waddyagonnadoaboutit?
Did you know Afghanistan now produces an estimated 75 per cent of the world's heroin?
You tough-talking blogheads kill me with your "that's the price of freedom" bullshit. Very easy to cope with someone else being expendable, paying the ultimate price for your folly. And the louse at the top won't even go to their funerals.
Posted by: Miranda Divide at November 19, 2003 at 12:33 PMThis Peter Richardson guy is funny, a classic lefty kook so utterly ignorant of military history he thinks two hundred troops and a half dozen crashed helecopters means defeat for the most powerful military the world has ever known.
This is what it's come to, this is seriously how dumb these people are. I mean, has this fuckwit even heard of a little do a few years back called World War Two?
I'd kick his well-padded girlish ass but Habib and RC Dean have already done it pretty well.
But I will say this: Richardson, it's idiots like you that give Bush's administration their most potent weapon. As long as you're sitting around on you fat self-indulgent lefty asses confidently predicting the 'moron' Bush will come a cropper and the destruction of the hated AmeriKKKa, he's free to continue wiping the floor with you on every front.
By the time you wake up, if you ever do, your stupidity seems pretty invincible, Bush will have installed an Iraqi democracy, started the reformation of the Arab world, cemented America's position as an unchalangable global hyperpower, killed Kiyoto, progressed with the missile sheild, packed the supreme court with so many hard right judges it'll make your eyes water, forced the democrats into semi-permanent minority and substantially deligitimised the UN.
He'll have done it all while the glorious socialist international rainbow alliance was apparently out to lunch, and, like me, he'll be laughing his ass off at you idiots.
Posted by: Amos at November 19, 2003 at 12:40 PMAndrea, I think that R.C. Dean and Rob Dean are different people.
Posted by: Dylan at November 19, 2003 at 12:42 PMI see torythere... we're all wrong coz you, a dunce, says so. Thanks for your guidance.
Does the pea-brain also remember something abt an immediate threat from WMD's? Jog the pea-brain, that withered organ that proudly thinks and doesn't feel, and maybe some memories will drizzle out an orifice or two.
Posted by: Miranda Divide at November 19, 2003 at 12:44 PMHey 'Miranda divide" what are we going to do about Zimbabwe, Congo, Sudan, Pakistan, Syria, Burma, Nth Korea and oh yes, China? Cut military spending and put it into health and education of course! That'll fix it!
What are we going to do to stop "PAkistan" using it's bomb? Put in a multi-national peace-keeping force under a UN flag and begin the path to elections on the East Timor model, of course!
Thank you for your very well thought out and intelligent advice, I can't for the life of me see why lefties are considered ignorant and juvenile and pretty much ignored in serious policy debates.
Posted by: Amos at November 19, 2003 at 12:48 PMYes, you're right. Very serious debates on policy here on the blogmire that are way beyond my station.
Hey, I don't pretend to know how to handle rampant barbarism, except I know invading without a post-op plan, just to beat your hairy chest, show off your hardware and win an election, sure aint the way to handle it!
Posted by: Miranda Divide at November 19, 2003 at 12:54 PMSo what is your post-op plan, Miranda? Let's say America pulled out, what would you do in Iraq - to your satisfaction?
Posted by: ilibcc at November 19, 2003 at 01:36 PMMiranda Divide wrote:
"Very easy to cope with someone else being expendable, paying the ultimate price for your folly"
It isn't at all. None of the poor buggars who died in the Twin Towers were "expendable", or the victims of the Religion of Peace in Bali.
Fanatics in Afghanistan and butchers in Baghdad? They're a bit harder to get upset about -- unless, like precious Miranda, your intellectual development stopped at about Year 11 and your moral development didn't begin at all.
Posted by: superboot at November 19, 2003 at 01:43 PMHabib did you see
Posted by: suberboot at November 19, 2003 at 09:05 AM
That post was more offensive then any of yours that I have seen.
As far as losers in the Iraq War here is one of them; caution he is pissed.
Posted by: papertiger at November 19, 2003 at 02:06 PMIn case you couldn't be bothered reading the whole thread, here's a summary so far:
Tim: Robert Manne is a twit. Ditto Margo Kingston. The SMH can't spell.
Various Readers: What's new?
Mike T: I hate Jews. But that's OK, because I hate everybody.
Andrea H: Bugger off Mike. You're banned!
Mike T: I shall de-link Tim from my blog. For the three people who read it, this will be a historic day.
Peter R: Saddam must be caught, or else the whole idea of invading was a mistake. Nothing else matters.
Various Trolls: Bush is tackling the world's problems the wrong way, and is a moron. I am sure of this, despite having no better ideas myself.
Various Readers: Yawn. Iraqis are free and loving it. Get a new hobbyhorse, resident lefties.
Habib: %$$#%&(^*&&*&^
Miranda D: My solution to terrorism: Spend more tax money on health and education!
Posted by: Macca at November 19, 2003 at 02:07 PMIs it full moon today? Boy is this place steamy. I've not read such a collection of drivel since ... never.
One thing we should get straight, though the debate left this point heaps of posts ago, anti-Israel is not anti-semitic. You can criticize any government's policy without hating the people who live there. You can also be down on say, female circumcision, without being anti-arab.
I'm on the Israelis' side, they don't seem to be the ones picking the fight. Doesn't matter what you think of the original partition, its happened, get over it. They only went into the Palestinian areas because they were attacked decades ago, so its a bit hard to whinge.
Posted by: Pedro at November 19, 2003 at 02:10 PMSo... the Left is so angry about the U.S toppling a genocidal regime that they want it to... do the same to North Korea, Zimbabwe and the Sudan etc?....
Posted by: gaz at November 19, 2003 at 02:13 PMI love it...the antiwar crowd predicted tens of thousands of deaths, rampant disease and hunger, mass migration into Turkey, etc. And....none of that. Zip. Zilch. Yes, there have been problems, of course there are -- a country is being rebuilt from scratch. But this is thus far one of the most successful endeavors undertaken -- ever. Christ, we've heard Vietnam ten million times in the last 6 months, and you know what? When you compare 300 deaths to 58,000, you get....(drumroll please), a percentage of .005%. And this with the military particularly hamstrung by the idea that this "different" war is doing everything possible to minimize civilian casualties. Saddam'd be dead by now if we used his tactics, but we're not him and his ilk, the process takes longer, and the Left continues to want it both ways.
That .005% is awfully convincing.
The ONLY disappointment so far is the fact we haven't gotten Saddam. The WMD issue is concerning (only because if they are out ther, we need to get them before others do), but the Left certainly cannot use this in a partisan way (though they'll try), as both Clintons, Gephardt, Gore, Bob Graham, as well as France, Germany, etc., ALL AGREED that Iraq had WMDs -- the only question was what to do about it. If Bush lied, then they all did.
If anyone had said in February that the conditions in Iraq would be such as they are now, I probably would have argued that they were being to optimistic -- and yet it still would have been the right thing to do.
Lastly, anyone who suggests that military force be used to solve every problem because it worked here simply doesn't have that "nuanced" approach to be "flexible" in their thinking, and see the "subtle" differences between the various circumstances -- signs of concrete thinking that generally does not bode well for "reasoned" understanding of world affairs.
Posted by: Jerry at November 19, 2003 at 02:15 PMMirannnda , Hey, I don't pretend to know how to handle rampant barbarism, except I know invading without a post-op plan
We are victims of our success. Maybe our leaders didn't expect the Sadam's Iraqis to turn tits up so quickly. Or maybe our current Hyperlink generation is so use to instant gratification they figure you just click restore country and the thing is all over. Maybe a bit of both. Like Arnold Schwarzenegger said, eighteen year old kids in Australia talk about their pensions.
Posted by: papertiger at November 19, 2003 at 02:20 PMHey Superboot and all the other sundry right wing fucks that worship Bush. Why don't any of you do something about it. I don't see any of you doing shit about Iraq except calling for more killing. Oh that's right we had to kill some to save them. The American empire is now on a one way slide to shit. You've flushed trillions of dollars down the drain for what. To liberate Iraq and give yourselves a tax break.
What crap, the liberation of Iraqi was never the issue here. If it was - even Howard would have treated the Iraqi refugees in Australia with some decency. Instead he puts kids in outback dentention camps in case any of them are terrorists.
What crap Tim and his little right wing wacko mates spew out each day here on shitville. There is no discussion here with or without us trolls.
Without us this shitville would be nothing but a bunch of crazed right wing wackos telling each other how correct you all are.
If any of us trolls tried to engage in reasoned debate most of the fucks that read shitville would simply pour out more shit like Tim's stupid little observations.
But what really makes me laugh is how Andrea gets so upset that she has to pay a few dollars a month for shitville and then she gets all upset that us trolls come along and go what a fine place to leave some more shit.
come on shit for brains Tim. let's see some more of your stinking right wing shit spew worth from shitty little mind of sludge.
Posted by: Peter Richardson at November 19, 2003 at 02:23 PMAll shit and no argument, Pete.
Sulk off someplace else.
Loser.
Posted by: ilibcc at November 19, 2003 at 02:30 PMPete, if that's what you call "reasoned debate" I'd hate to see you when you're pissed off.
Come to think of it, I'd hate to see you full stop.
Now fuck off and do something constructive, like seeing a psychologist regarding your apparent shit fixation.
Posted by: gaz at November 19, 2003 at 02:53 PMIt's lunch time for Peter.
Hey, Pete, America has already "slid to shit". The open sewers and rampant botulism in Kansas City is horrifying. Please open your heart, and send me money so that I can buy a sack of rice from the local warlord. It costs $250. Don't send those goddamned Australian dollars. I promise not to spend the money on beer and broadband internet. Thanks in advance, fuckchop. Kissy - Dylan
Posted by: Dylan at November 19, 2003 at 03:26 PMPete's post reminded me. Is there a Tourette's Syndrome foundation that I can make a contribution to? Why yes there is right here.
And some Tourette's Trivia:
Tourette's ancestral home was in Loudun, France, and its history was to have particular significance in his life. Back in the 1630's, some Ursuline nuns in Loudun had suddenly started acting in bizarre ways -- blaspheming, jerking their bodies around, barking, screaming, engaging in erotic behavior and the like. Some were described as possessed; others as obsessed.
A local priest with a reported eye for the ladies named Urbain Grandier was blamed for the problem (of course, the fact that he had challenged Cardinal Richelieu on a hot political issue might have clued us that he was bound to be blamed for something sooner or later, but let's not get political, right?) Anyway, attempted exorcisms failed, and the hysteria/possession swept throughout the convent. Grandier was put on trial for his sorcery, convicted, and set fire to by the exorcists, maintaining his innocence to the end. It was the one of the biggest witchcraft trials in history.
The most famous nun involved in the case was the Mother Superior of the convent, Jeanne Belcier (known as Soeur Jeanne des Anges), who later attributed her hysteria to her unrequited love for Grandier.
Tourette was fascinated with the case because of his interest in hysteria, and in 1886, he and Gabriel Legue published an analysis of the case in:
Legué (Gabriel) & Gilles de la Tourette (Georges). Soeur Jeanne des Anges, supérieure des Ursulines de Loudun (XVIIe siècle). Autobiographie d'une hystérique possédée d'après le manuscrit inédit de la bibliothèque de Tours. Préface de M. Le Professeur Charcot. In-8, br. XIV-321 pp. 1 pl. depl. Paris, Bureaux du Progrès, Delahaye et Lecrosnier, 1886.
During the same time frame that Tourette was publishing his analysis of the Loudon hysteria/possession case, his mentor, Charcot, was continuing to develop the Saltpetriere into the leading center on research and treatment of hysteria. It was Charcot who established hypnotism as a clinical and research tool. And one of the things Charcot was doing was using hypnosis to induce hysteria.
Seven years later, Tourette would be shot by a former female patient of the Saltpetriere, who claimed that Tourette had hypnotized her from a distance and was responsible for her insanity. It seems somehow ironic that just as Soeur Jeanne des Anges blamed Grandier for her hysterical behavior, this hysterical woman blamed Tourette for her problems. Tourette survived the gunshot wounds, and died in 1904 after suffering progressive paralysis and psychiatric disturbance due to syphilis.
And in case you didn't know: one of Charcot's students back in 1885 and 1886 was some guy named Sigmund Freud.
So you see Tourette's can be deadly. Pete you best get that checked out!
I do my best to avoid coming across as a chest thumping, crowing American. But when I see a post like the one above about "bogged down in Iraq" and "a debt binge... indebted to China" I have to question the authors grip on reality. 130,000 troops? We have an army to enforce our security and interests. The US has 300 million citizens. On war footing we could raise an army of 10 to 20 million. Debts? Iraq is only a few % of the Federal budget. The US economy is currently almost 30% of the worlds economy. Current deficits (as a % of either GNP or Federal budget) are only average for the last 20 years or so. Not exactly a critical situation. Iraq may not be a pretty picture, but it will get better. And if you want to see ugly, just wait and see what happens if there is another terrorist attack on US soil. I think we've got more than a little margin to step up the pressure.
I think we're expecting entirely too much from Miranda and Peter. Jesus, these goobs haven't even picked up on the fact their protests generally result in poll gains for the opposition.
Hey, Peter -- when you show up on TV, most people turn away from you in pure disgust. Think it over.
Why would Arnold Schwarzeneggar talk about Australian teenagers? /scratching my head
Posted by: papertiger at November 19, 2003 at 03:35 PMuse the brain! use the brain you retarted lefty pupets!
Posted by: roscoe at November 19, 2003 at 03:55 PMHey KenG - so go raise an army of 10 million and get to war.
This war reminds me of Germany in 1941 when housewives still went shopping for white goods.
A little bit of serious sacrifice now and going forward and we might actually win this war and make the peace more than a photo op for a frat boy.
Our enemies are much smarter than Bush et al give them credit for.
I'd be very surprised to hear that any of the generals in the back office think we are winning this war.
(the above is reasoned debate - so lets see some shit get dumped in it usual way straight back. Why bother engaging in reasoned debate in shitville(tm) - it ain't worth the effort. It starts with Tim's stupid comments and hence its much more fun to be a troll spraying poison back at blogbait like Andrea)
Posted by: Peter Richardson at November 19, 2003 at 04:18 PMyou were in germany in 1941? fuck! you must be an old nazi!
Posted by: roscoe at November 19, 2003 at 04:23 PMPete wrote previously: 'I don't see any of you doing shit about Iraq except calling for more killing. Oh that's right we had to kill some to save them.'
Now Pete's calling for more troops.
That's a big turnaround Pete.
But credit where it's due. Congratulations.
Posted by: ilibcc at November 19, 2003 at 04:33 PMOh it makes me so mad this shitville place has so many crazed right wing wackos spewing forth from their shitty little minds of refreshing carbonated shit flavoured beverages sludgetelling each other shit about shit they have not one shitting damn idea about despite my reasoned debate most of the fucks that read shitville would simply pour out more shit lik all that shit that spews from OH GOD THE SPIDERS! THE SPIDERS ARE ALL OVER ME&*($ DKI:OIJ?L!K!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Amos at November 19, 2003 at 05:08 PMManure is what makes the grass grow, grass is what cows eat, we eat cows -- so were all full of shit
Posted by: papertiger at November 19, 2003 at 05:13 PMespecially ^^^^ Pete- he had a double helping
Posted by: papertiger at November 19, 2003 at 05:18 PMHow smart are our enemys really? By all appearances Saddam had destroyed his nerve and mustard gas stores. Instead of coming clean with UNSCOM, he played hard ass. Gave them the run around for three years.
Why did he do it? Because Iran is still pissed from the last time he tried to take over their oil. The Kurds are still pissed from when he killed every man woman and child in Hallabja. And the Basrah people are not too fond either. Saddam was so worried of his near neighbors that he iggied a 200,000 man army building up on his flank.
Thats not too bright is it?
Calm down Amos, yes, relax...just look at the naked anti-war protesters spelling out "PEACE" and calm down, relax...
Remember all those hillareous artilces by lefties claiming that the poor Americans were walking into a trap in Afghanistan, that Osama was laughing at them, that no one could outwit these terrorist geniuses? I think Fisk himself wrote some bizzare piece on how the poor clueless and defensless Mossad (yes, the fucking MOSSAD) was helpless against the remorseless and utterly brilliant Al-Quaeda, which at that time was bolting for it's life across the Pakistani boarder with half it's leadership dead.
Well we've certainly seen how badly the west has been beaten since then, the American military folded in three weeks, Washington is occupied by the Jihadi coalition army and Bush is on the run somewhere in Wyoming.
Oh woe is me! Who will save us from these evil masterminds!? If only resident whiney lefties had pointed out how weak and stupid we were BEFOR we went up against the collossus of the Islamic world! Oh wait, they did.
If only we'd listened!
Posted by: Amos at November 19, 2003 at 06:46 PM"Australians and Americans need to look out for their own nation's interests and not blindly or uncritically prop up a little coastal strip of land that only produces submachine guns and assassins of any real quality."
What Israel produces.
# Israel leads the world in the number of scientists and technicians in the workforce, with 145 per 10,000, as opposed to 85 in the U.S., over 70 in Japan, and less than 60 in Germany. With over 25% of its work force employed in technical professions. Israel places first in this category as well.
# Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population in the world.
# Israel has the highest per capita ratio of scientific publications in the world by a large margin, as well as one of the highest per capita rates of patents filed.
# Israel has the highest percentage in the world of home computers per capita.
# Outside the United States and Canada, Israel has the largest number of NASDAQ listed companies
# With more than 3,000 high-tech companies and start-ups, Israel has the highest concentration of hi-tech companies in the world (apart from the Silicon Valley).
# The cell phone was developed in Israel by Motorola-Israel. Motorola built its largest development center worldwide in Israel.
# Windows NT software was developed by Microsoft-Israel.
# The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel.
# Voice mail technology was developed in Israel.
# AOL's instant message program was designed by an Israeli software company.
# Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R&D facilities outside the US in Israel.
# On a per capita basis, Israel has the largest number of biotech start-ups
Thanks for the laughs, Andrea - watching you tweak the trolls took my mind off today's firebombing of a Holocaust museum in Indiana.
Posted by: Yehudit at November 19, 2003 at 08:29 PMDylan: well, I certainly hope so. My comments above directed at R.C. Dean should be directed at "Rob" Dean.
Macca: thanks! you have performed a valuable service.
Pedro: of course, but unfortunately so many critics of Israel seem to slide right into the "those Jews" cant.
Yehudit: thanks. Not that the trolls will listen; they aren't interested in being educated (despite all their calls for more money to be poured into the education industry, one gets the impression it's merely because they want to be able to extend their grants into infinity).
Petey: yes, that's some reasoned discourse you've provided here. You've -- you've made me think. Yes you have. I have gone into a Deep Introspective Study of My Innermost Soul, inspired by your impassioned cries. And I have concluded.... that you need medicating. Severely.
Miranda: so much flash, and so little pan.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at November 19, 2003 at 09:30 PMNot sure I'd want Windows NT on my resume, but apart from that I'm impressed
Posted by: Osamas Psychotic Proctologist at November 19, 2003 at 09:37 PMWhat about the advice to visualise naked anti-war protesters- are you trying to bring on a psychotic episode, followed by uncontrollable bulimia in the poor boy?
For shame.
Regarding the level of offence, I am much more offensive on my own site; i have manners, and don't shit on the furniture when I'm a guest. (Most times, anyway).
Thanks for the update Andrea, I have to go off and have a life before returning sporadically to the blogmire to look more evil in the face and stare down fools for kicks.
It's nice to know there is someone willing to sit round all day 'monitoring the situation' on the AWOL Bloghead's vanity blogmire. So you pay for this farce huh?
Posted by: Miranda Divide at November 19, 2003 at 10:43 PMYehudit- it wasn't firebombing.
http://www.indystar.com/articles/4/094265-6344-009.html
despite all their calls for more money to be poured into the education industry, one gets the impression it's merely because they want to be able to extend their grants into infinity.
Andrea, I take it you mean tertiary education. I have had experience with teaching at both the tertiary and secondary level, and I can assure that while there are a great many dopes and cynics in the system, there are a great many more genuine people.
If you want some examples of the benefits educated individuals can provide, check Yehudit's post. And of course, I believe the Internet was developed by academics - not totally useless.
Posted by: Joe at November 20, 2003 at 12:03 AMFor those who really do think that the US is abusing its status as the world's only superpower, let me remind you that all of the military actions of the last two years have been very measured and restrained responses to the 9/11 attacks. You have not seen unrestrained anger (as shown by the continued existence of dictatorships in every Arab country but one).
To quote a very forgettable television show from the 70s: "Please don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."
Posted by: Ken Summers at November 20, 2003 at 12:34 AMJoe, the Internet got it's start via US defense spending.
You right wing wackos remind me of housewives who went shopping for white goods in Germany in 1941.
?????????!?
So what is your post-op plan, Miranda? Let's say America pulled out, what would you do in Iraq - to your satisfaction?
It comes as no surprise that after having been challenged to come up with a better solution, nothing has been offered.
>You right wing wackos remind me of housewives who went shopping for white goods in Germany in 1941.
I'm puzzled by this one, too Amos. I think he believes that the worst thing German civilians did was to try to get on with their lives. Or maybe he thinks the United States is being bombed at nights by the RAF.
>Oil, guys . . . what about the oooiiill?
Did it just come out that Saddam tried to offer it to the US as part of a last-minute peace bid?
Funny how that didn't help.
Posted by: John Nowak at November 20, 2003 at 03:59 AM>Why would Arnold Schwarzeneggar talk about Australian teenagers? /scratching my head
I think I remember that interview differently -- I thought he said Austrian, not Australian.
>I know invading without a post-op plan, just to beat your hairy chest, show off your hardware and win an election, sure aint the way to handle it!
Okay, so now Bush invaded Iraq in early 2003 in order to win an election scheduled for late 2004.
Oh, and bye, Miranda. Gee, your brain sure gave us a pummelling here.
Posted by: John Nowak at November 20, 2003 at 04:05 AM> I think I remember that interview differently -- I thought he said Austrian, not Australian.
Yes that makes much more sense.
I hope the Terre Haute Holocaust museum is restored with a wing devoted to post war anti -semitism,.
Yehudit - It occures to me that a wing of the Museum devoted to the traditions of the Hebrew Faith would be a powerful tool to dispell the Jew bashing. I know nothing of what happens in a synagoge. And I am pro-Israel. Now with me it is enough that I don't hear screams coming from the temple as I walk by. Live and let live. But there are those who know nothing of Jews and their traditions, who have Islamics or Neo Nazis filling that knowlege vacuum. This is something that could be fixed easily.
I would suggest less embarassment about your religion for start. We have a plethora of cartoon holiday specials defining the Christian story. Not just the ancient life of Jesus. The story of Christianity today is outlined. Simular creative advocacy by Hebrews would be a welcome addition to America's holiday fare. Plus a new generation of people will have their knowlege vacuum filled with the good message, saving lives, encouraging peace.
papertiger: well, I googled "what happens in a synagogue" and got this page. The internet is a resource we all have at our fingertips... and there is the library too -- or Amazon. For instance, I wondered if there was a "Judaism for Dummies" book out -- there is one for everything else under the sun. Of course there was.
By the way, I have been to a Sabbath service. I think it was a Conservative synagogue, a little street-side place in Miami. It was much like any religious ceremony, the rabbi said some prayers (in Hebrew) and then gave a sermon -- well, a speech, it was a special service dedicated to the birthday of one of the members, a man who had cerebral palsy -- and the Torah was passed around to everyone to touch. (It was kept in a special gold case). Then everyone had cake and punch, but that was the birthday thing, unfortunately I don't think there is cake and punch every Sabbath.
Hey, I like cake and punch.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at November 20, 2003 at 11:23 AMJoe, the Internet got it's start via US defense spending.
Quite correct. Anyone with an interest in this can check out a potted history here . Note, though, the early involvement of UCLA, MIT, NPL etc.
Posted by: Joe at November 20, 2003 at 11:41 AMAndrea
Thanks I will check out your links. Yehudit directed me to a site when I posted a simular Question on LGF. Right now I'm listening to Jewish folk music by a band from Austin TX that Yehudit recommended! Quite good actually.
This is a site she(?)directed me to find out what the world looks like through Jewish eyes.
Generous offer to share your eyes I think.
Maybe if the Jews handed out a little more cake and punch instead of drinking Muslim children's blood, they wouldn't have all these problems!
Posted by: Amos at November 20, 2003 at 12:08 PMAnd I know what you Jews are thinking, "Maybe if we put the Muslim children's blood IN the cake and punch and handed it out, maybe even to the greiving parents of the children we killed to extract the blood, that would help."
No it wouldn't! Goddamnit, Jews!
Posted by: Amos at November 20, 2003 at 03:11 PMAmos, please relax! Look at the Giant Puppets! Look at the Giant Puppets...the Giant Puppets are you friends!