September 02, 2003

NEW HAMAS, NOW 25% UNFRIENDLIER

The formerly moderate Palestinian fellowship collective known as Hamas has become radicalised, according to The Guardian:

The death of Abu Shenab has radicalised Hamas.

I guess thatís the end of civilised negotiation, then.

UPDATE. Another Hamas activist has been killed, reports AFP. The War on Activism continues.

Posted by Tim Blair at September 2, 2003 03:24 AM
Comments

And I liked them so much better when they were in their warm, friendly puppy-dog phase.

Posted by: JorgXMcKie at September 2, 2003 at 04:44 AM

Those Zionist chews don't realize what they have STARTED.

Posted by: ed at September 2, 2003 at 04:45 AM

Oh Ed, you shurely said a mouthful. Personally I'm just kind of sick and tired of the whole 5,000+ year old blood feud between warring tribes of Wandering Desert People. And I'm really sick of them having now taken this feud pretty much round the globe through emigration, prosletization(sp?) and so forth. I think anyone who has an ethnic, religious, spiritual, familial or economic stake in that dispute should put their gelt where their mouths are, move back to their ancestral motherland in the middle east permanently and duke it out there, leaving the rest of us in peace. They're all taking up way too much space elsewhere.

Posted by: Bling bling at September 2, 2003 at 05:51 AM

Have you heard that fanatical Israeli settlers have put together their own militia?
It's called the Israeli Defence Force.

Oops, I was forgetting myself - they aren't fanatical settlers, they're just reclaiming land that was promised to them by God. Kind of like divine native-title legislation, only the "rational" right-wingers support this version.
Oops, I was forgetting myself - they're just there to defend poor weak Israel, with it's nuclear weapons and tanks and helicopter gunships, from the possibility of being "driven into the sea".
Oops, I was forgetting myself - they only target terrorists (and 8 year old militants).

Posted by: thepusher at September 2, 2003 at 08:04 AM

Funny thing, Pusher....Israel didn't take the land until they were attacked. Now it's strategic to keep it, because otherwise it's exposing their throat. But I guess that gets in the way of your "they think God gave it to them" meme.

You sneer at calling Israel victims, because they've got weapons. I have to assume you've been ignoring the constant suicide/homocide bombings. You've ignored the Palestinian responses of "hell no, we won't get rid of the people who bomb Israel.'

Funny thing....Hamas kills busses of woman and children. Israel tries to target Hamas leaders, and _tries_ not to have civilian crossfire, but that happens (as our recent war in Iraq shows)

But hey, they're all the same in your eyes.

Btw, I like your scare quotes around "pushed to the sea." Are you actually suggesting the Arab countries around Israel haven't said that they wanted to do this? It's not a secret. We're not putting words in their mouth. Go to their own websites. Arabnews, Al-Jazeera, etc. and you will _see_ them say this.

Posted by: Andy at September 2, 2003 at 08:34 AM

Andy - You should not rise to the bait of obvious trolls. They do not listen to reason, once you debunk their lies and distortions they will invent new ones. I have learned this through hard experience.

Posted by: ross at September 2, 2003 at 09:14 AM

Well now Guardian' has confirmed it, Hamas are just regular, affable, decent chaps after all.Murdering,bye the bye, is just like a day at the races, don't you know : trust the Israelis to construe soemthing else.

Posted by: d at September 2, 2003 at 09:19 AM

Let us pool our money and buy "thepusher" a lifetime Israeli Bus Pass and coupons for free inhouse pizza.

Posted by: Perfectsense at September 2, 2003 at 09:19 AM

Well why would those European chaps find anything radical or offensive about Hamas ? They find that murdering Jews aint so bad - but building a security fence, now thats a war crime !

Ahh those sophisticated Europeans - cheerleaders of terror.

Posted by: Jono at September 2, 2003 at 09:25 AM

The Jews claim the God given right to Israel and al Qaeda claims the God given right to the whole planet. Which of these claims poses a threat to civilisation as we know it?

Posted by: ZsaZsa at September 2, 2003 at 10:02 AM

I don't see where Europe has a bitch coming. Israel is only targeting these activists. Their leaving the militants alone all together.

Posted by: papertiger at September 2, 2003 at 10:38 AM

Abu Shenab --

Feminist:
"We Muslims believe that Islamic law contains all the rights women need," says Ismail Abu Shenab, a senior official in the Islamic fundamentalist group Hamas. "If women are given the ability to divorce, it will be destructive for the family," opening the door to sexual promiscuity.

Peace activist and media specialist:
His response to my challenge about nonviolence is respectful, but he doesnít believe it will work in the Palestinian context. He makes two points. The first is that the situation of Gandhiís movement against the British was very different, and aided by economic realities. The British were in India for trade, and when India was no longer profitable for them they left. But the Israelis are not here for trade, they are here for the land. He refers to the map on the wall showing the spreading settlements in the West Bank and Gaza.

His second argument is that he doesnít believe the world media would report on Palestinian nonviolent resistance. He understands that media attention is a critical element for the success of nonviolent struggles, but what if no one sees it?

Moderate, in the Guardian's view of things:
As the New York Times reported, the murderous attack left Hamas "pleased and satisfied." "Our spirit is high, our mood is good," Ismail Abu Shenab, a Hamas leader, was quoted as saying. The Passover massacre was "the crowning achievement" of Hamas' efforts thus far, he added "with a smile." (New York Times, April 4, 2002)


Posted by: wm. tyroler at September 2, 2003 at 11:13 AM

The first thing that we have to make clear is that no distinction must be made between the Jew and the Israeli....The Jew is a Jew, through the millennia....in spurning all moral values, devouring the living and drinking his blood for the sake of a few coins. The Jew, the Merchant of Venice, does not differ from the killer of Deir Yasin or the killer of the camps. They are equal examples of human degradation. Let us therefore put aside such distinctions and talk about Jews

Dr. Lufti Abd al-Azim, AL- AHRAM

The Jews are always the same, every time and everywhere. They will not live save in darkness. They contrive their evils clandestinely. They fight only when they are hidden, because they are cowards....The Prophet enlightened us about the right way to treat them, and succeeded finally in crushing the plots that they had planned. We today must follow this way and purify Palestine from their filth.

Ayatollah Khomeini, Foreword to his book on Islamic Government

We Palestinians will take over everything, including all of Jerusalem....All the rich Jews who will get compensation will travel to America....We of the PLO will now concentrate all our efforts on splitting Israel psychologically into two camps. Within five years we will have six to seven million Arabs living in the West Bank and in Jerusalem....You understand that we plan to eliminate the State of Israel and establish a purely Palestinian State....I have no use for Jews; they are and remain Jews

Yassir Arafat, Partner For Peace

Our goal is clear — we shall wipe Israel off the face of the map. We shall, God willing, meet in Tel Aviv and Haifa. We shall destroy Israel and its inhabitants and as for the survivors — if there are any — the boats are ready to deport them.

President `Abd al-Rahman Muhammad 'Aref of Iraq


Have you heard that fanatical Israeli settlers have put together their own militia?
It's called the Israeli Defence Force.
Oops, I was forgetting myself - they aren't fanatical settlers, they're just reclaiming land that was promised to them by God. Kind of like divine native-title legislation, only the "rational" right-wingers support this version.
Oops, I was forgetting myself - they're just there to defend poor weak Israel, with it's nuclear weapons and tanks and helicopter gunships, from the possibility of being "driven into the sea".
Oops, I was forgetting myself - they only target terrorists (and 8 year old militants).

Annonomous, anti-semitic fuckhead, "Thepusher"

Posted by: Amos at September 2, 2003 at 11:36 AM

Correction, that quote wasn't from Khomeini, it was from an Egyptian school book. Jesus fucking christ.

Oh and while we're at it, let's hear from the good 'doctor' Yaha al-Rakhawi, in AL-AHRAM again:

we are all - once again - face to face with the Jewish Problem, not just the Zionist Problem; and we must reassess all those studies which make a distinction between "The Jew" and "The Israeli"....and we must redefine the meaning of the word `Jew' so that we do not imagine that we are speaking of a divinely revealed religion, or a minority persecuted by mankind....we cannot help but see before us the figure of the great man Hitler, may God have mercy on him, who was the wisest of those who confronted this problem....and who out of compassion for humanity tried to exterminate every Jew, but despaired of curing this cancerous growth on the body of mankind.

Hooray for that great man, Hitler! May god have mercy on him, and on his cockroach-like modern form, the ranting internet jewhater. Feel proud, 'pusher', feel very proud.

Posted by: Amos at September 2, 2003 at 11:45 AM

Headlines:

Hamas activists.

Israeli assassins.

One blows innocent schoolchildren limb from limb.

One kills murderous terrorists.

Language doesn't kill. But it comes close.

Posted by: ilibcc at September 2, 2003 at 12:10 PM

Really, really funny link on EvilPundit's website about Hamas. I forget where to, exactly. Ask him nicely, he might just give it to you.

Posted by: TimT at September 2, 2003 at 12:49 PM

Hi, TimT!

That link is to IMAO, which contains loads of hilarious stuff. I particularly recommend Nuke the Moon and Cyber-Lenin vs The Rumsfeld Strangler on that site.

Posted by: Evil Pundit at September 2, 2003 at 04:06 PM

"Annonomous, anti-semitic fuckhead, "Thepusher"

Yeah, I'm an "anti-semite" whose Grandmother's family was wiped out in WWII. Labels - the last refuge of the moron.

Better start gassin those Muslims...

Posted by: thepusher at September 2, 2003 at 05:37 PM

Well said, "thepusher" is clearly a label used by a moron.

Posted by: Jake D at September 2, 2003 at 05:43 PM

In the style of the above post, I retort:
"Takes one to know one"

Posted by: thepusher at September 2, 2003 at 08:11 PM

Ooh! "I know you are but what am I?"

Strange side note: "The Pusher" was the nickname of a psychic killer in an old X-Files episode. The line about him was: "A little man who wanted to be a big man." Yeah. That's about right.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at September 2, 2003 at 10:01 PM

Hey Pusher sure sorry to hear of your dead family, you know, those ones you just made up like a good little lying internet scumbag.

Maybe some day I'll regail you all with stories of daring vigilantism, when I wore a pair of futuristic rocketboots and fought crime on the streets of Astro Metropolis.

If your family DID die WW2 I'm going to assume that they were Germans who got blown up by the RAAF while opperating the big machine that turned homosexuals into soap, but feel free to fantasise something more entertaining for us.

Posted by: Amos at September 2, 2003 at 10:11 PM

The death of Abu Shenab has radicalised Hamas.


I guess thatís the end of civilised negotiation, then.


UPDATE. Another Hamas activist has been killed, reports AFP. The War on Activism continues.


I guess Hamas is even more better, new and improved radicalized. Pretty soon their heads are going to explode from radicalization.

Posted by: Jabba the Nutt at September 3, 2003 at 12:46 AM

The War on Activism continues.

I'm appropriating this one. So insanely funny...

Posted by: Tongue Boy at September 3, 2003 at 01:44 AM

At the risk of injecting some intelligence into this blog (and responding to the people's demands for alternative solutions), here's some pragmatic analysis of world issues:

The Middle-East peace process should have taken priority over Iraq.
Iraq could have waited because Saddam, being a vain egotistical power-lovin dictator guy, would not have used WMD or supplied WMD to terrorists who would use it because he would be annihilated by the retaliation. Think about it, after 9/11 he was immediately under suspicion. To attack the US would be like committing suicide, losing all the trappings of power. He has been quoted as saying he believes he "won" the first Gulf war simply by surviving. His army was in a pathetic state, his country was in a pathetic state, he's an evil bastard but if you are looking at it strategically, he was effectively contained because he is addicted to power.
Arguments for the urgency of invading Iraq are further contradicted by the US engaging in "sit down negotiations" with North Korea, possibly the nuttiest regime on the planet.

Now we have the US with its resources divided, facing tenuous situations in Afghanistan, Iraq and North Korea all whilst still trying to keep the remnants of the roadmap alive. You might say that the toppling of Saddam was essential for progress in the Middle-East. I disagree. I know he funded and supported Palestinian terrorism, but he's just one of many.

Establishment of a Palestinian State should have been priority number one. I support the fundamentals of the roadmap document, I also support the building of the security fence as it is unrealistic to expect an instant cessation of terrorist activity. However, this also means that Israel cannot expect complete cessation of terrorism before it starts fulfilling its side of the bargain - it is simply unrealistic to expect that the Palestinian Authority can do in a few months what Israel itself has been unable to do over several years. Israel has massive military strength plus support from the US, and as such cannot argue that there is a genuine threat to its actual existence - its civilians are under threat from terrorism, but if we are looking for a solution, a way forward, then we have to look at the long-term. Settlements must be dismantled - unfortunately I think that it is politically impossible, but if you want a solution, it is essential.

The key to fighting extremists is to empower the moderates. Extremist leaders find ripe prey amongst disempowered and downtrodden people - that is exactly what we are trying to stop with our intervention in the Solomon Islands. We should be prioritising the creation of a Palestinian state, supporting the rebuilding of their economy, basically everything we say we will do in Iraq. Palestinians who are sick of the years of violence will start turning away from their extremist leaders once they are given something to aspire to, some certainty in their future. Of course there will be die-hard zealots who will be devoted to hating Israel, there could be an increase in terrorism in the short-term (but hopefully the security fence would prove effective). However, if Israel shows restraint and a new Palestine gains economic stability (with international assistance), the extremist leaders will become marginilised and increasingly insignificant as the majority of the Palestinian population moves on and becomes busy with their day-to-day lives (something which is impossible under a system of constant curfews, checkpoints, raids, poverty etc).

Obviously this is a simplified picture (I'm not about to post a full length essay up here), and all easier said than done and may take decades to achieve, but my fundamental point is that the resources and focus now being devoted to Iraq should have been devoted to Palestine. Palestine should have become the first "rejuvenated" capital of the Arab world, functioning as both an example of democracy and a symbolic gesture of commitment from the West which may make it more difficult for other extremists to brainwash their followers that we want to crush their religion.

At the end of the day, religion and nationalism is about identity, and all human beings have a natural desire to identify with a "tribe" - patriotism being just another example of tribalism (after all, what is the logical reason for us to cheer on Ian Thorpe or hero-worship Bradman?). Standing over someone and telling them that their identity is wrong or inferior will not get you anywhere.

Posted by: thepusher at September 3, 2003 at 04:38 AM

That's a great plan Pusher. We just need to tell the Palestinians, who have been taught from birth that the United States is evil and under the control of the evil Zionists who want to murder babies and drink their blood, that we'll give them a state if they could, pretty please, stop blowing themselves up. Sounds like a great plan. Why didn't anyone think of that sooner?

Posted by: amy at September 3, 2003 at 04:57 AM

"Israel...cannot argue that there is a genuine threat to its actual existence..." Yeah, and it would take about 100,000 9/11s to kill every American. Maybe we should negotiate with al-Qaeda. Or maybe nations have a right to defend their citizens from attacks by terrorists dedicated to their destruction.

Posted by: scott h. at September 3, 2003 at 06:27 AM

And they are dedicated to Israel's destruction. Hezbollah said "Israel is the American spearhead in the Islamic world and must be wiped out. All plans, including even tacit recognition of the Zionist entity, are rejected...." ("Open Letter to the Downtrodden in Lebanon and the World", 1985). Hamas' charter also calls for the destruction of Israel and rejection of any peace talks.

All of which makes it hard to say they aren't a genuine threat to Israel's existence. Is it because they only kill a couple of dozen Israelis at a time? If that's the case, I'm glad you're not worried about Iraqi guerrillas.

Posted by: scott h. at September 3, 2003 at 07:11 AM

I think Mark Steyn said it best (and I'm quoting from memory):

"you don't want to be standing next to one of these activists when he activates himself."

Posted by: D at September 3, 2003 at 11:14 AM

If i hear the word "disempowered" once more i think i'll be sick. It's so.. so... first year arts. In fact, the next person i hear use it will get a "disempowering" punch in the head.

Posted by: roscoe p coltrane at September 3, 2003 at 02:43 PM

I've read pusher's stuff carefully, and I can find nothing anti-semitic in any of it.

And I'm Jewish. Avowedly secular, admittedly. But Jewish nonetheless.

Suicide bombing is a great evil. But Israel too murders little children. The opponents of another's evil are not necessarily good.

Posted by: drummergirl at September 3, 2003 at 05:20 PM

I bet you think that last sentence was really deep, huh drummergirl.

Serial killing is a great evil. But the NYPD murders children. The opponents of another's evil are not necessarily good.

Posted by: scott h. at September 3, 2003 at 06:10 PM

drummergirl

Some people really don't get it.

There is a profound moral difference between blowing oneself up in a public place knowing that one will thereby kill children and accidentally, and despite one's best efforts to the contrary, killing a child in the course of attempting to round up those who support, finance and encourage the great evil of suicide bombing.

And another thing: killing's not "murder" if it's accidental.

Killing's not "murder" if it's a reasonable and proportionate act of self-defence.

Suicide bombing is always murder.

But the "Israel murders babies mob" are so divorced from western/judeo-christian concepts of morality that they never honestly address the moral arguments.

Posted by: D at September 3, 2003 at 06:40 PM

Drummergirl is a jew-ess? DIE YOU AVOWED SATANIC OPPONENT OF HAMAS!

Posted by: roscoe p coltrane at September 3, 2003 at 08:05 PM

'If i hear the word "disempowered" once more i think i'll be sick. It's so.. so... first year arts.'

So I guess that's another word that doesn't fit into the new right-wing spectrum of political correctness. Perhaps you should take a holiday in Gaza sometime...

Posted by: thepusher at September 4, 2003 at 04:06 AM

"the pusher" is a song from the film "Eazy Rider" - the dealer is a man with a lot of grass in his hand, for a nickel, gonna sell you lots of sweat dreams, but god damn the pushing man. If I was president of this land I would declare war on the pusher. God damn the pusher.

Posted by: Jonny at September 4, 2003 at 05:11 AM

By the way, "drummergirl" is actually none other than our own "Nemesis," who ran away from this site some time ago whining like a baby that we were mean to him. (It's either him or his S.O. How do I know? Same IP address. Learn to spoof IPs before you pretend to be someone else, loser.)

Posted by: Andrea Harris at September 5, 2003 at 02:34 PM