June 12, 2003


It’s helltime in Israel:

A suicide bomber blew himself up on a bus in downtown Jerusalem on Wednesday, killing at least 13 people and wounding nearly 70 a day after Hamas threatened bloody revenge for an Israeli attack on one of its leaders.

Soon after the bombing, an Israeli helicopter fired missiles at a car in Gaza City, targeting a senior Hamas militant, Israel TV reported, the second such assassination attempt in as many days.

The bombing "is a message to all the Zionist criminals that they are not safe and that the Palestinian fighters are capable of reaching them everywhere," said Mahmoud Zahar, a leader of the Islamic militant group.

Sounds like the Iraqi information minister, don’t he? Hamas, like all terrorist organisations, is destined to lose; they’ll murder perhaps hundreds of innocents during their descent, but lose they surely will, because their aims violate every principle that has triumphed throughout human history. Right now Hamas is bringing its own demise ever closer, but they’re too stupid and blood-hungry to realise it. Forget the suicide bombing, you idiots. Just kill yourselves.

Posted by Tim Blair at June 12, 2003 03:33 AM

I expect that several dozen "human shields" will now volunteer to ride Israeli buses, in order to help discourage this sort of thing.

Any moment now.


Any moment now.

Posted by: Dean at June 12, 2003 at 03:35 AM

My father was nearby, checked in to say he's OK.

I'd welcome the gruesome death of the Hamas leadership as much as anyone, but that attempt to kill Rantisi yesterda was just stupid, stupid, STUPID! These reckless operations always seem to be pulled off at the worst times.

Posted by: Otter at June 12, 2003 at 03:39 AM


It wasn't stupid. How is it damaging peace prospects by trying to kill somebody who isn't interested in peace, let alone a cease-fire?

Posted by: AndyM at June 12, 2003 at 03:56 AM


"A leader of Hamas's military wing, Tito Massaoud, was meanwhile reported to be among those killed in the airstrike that came minutes later on a car in a Gaza City residential district. A second Hamas activist, Sohil Abu Nahel, and four passersby died" -- Guardian

Posted by: AndyM at June 12, 2003 at 04:04 AM

It is STUPID, STUPID to pass up any opportunity to kill these bastards.

Posted by: Joel at June 12, 2003 at 05:36 AM

Keep in mind that the attack on Rantisi was in response to attacks a few days ago by the Pals that killed 5 Israeli soldiers.

Also, remember that Abbas has said he will do nothing effective to rein in Hamas. Actually, what he said was that he would not use violence against Hamas, meaning that his commitment to reining in this terrorist organization is less than your average traffic cop's commitment to issuing you a ticket for going 5 over the limit.

Posted by: T. Hartin at June 12, 2003 at 08:49 AM

`Road Map to Peace'= the shortest route for Israeli tanks to crush the Hamas-PLF -PLO murdering bastards.

Posted by: d at June 12, 2003 at 09:45 AM

It was stupid because it failed.

Send in a helicopter with some sniper backup, next time.

Posted by: Tatterdemalian at June 12, 2003 at 10:09 AM

Tim says: "Hamas, like all terrorist organisations, is destined to lose..."

Interesting. Have the IRA lost then? Must have missed that newsflash while I was having a ciggie outside the rehearsal room.

Posted by: Bon Scott at June 12, 2003 at 11:40 AM

What about sending Hamas a consignment of practice bombs?

Posted by: Geoff Wick at June 12, 2003 at 11:46 AM

Hmm... let's see... North Ireland is still loyalist, and there are still Protestants living there.

Doesn't look like the IRA has won the Battle of the Boyne yet. Another 300 years of fighting, then?

Posted by: Tatterdemalian at June 12, 2003 at 12:23 PM

I am so sick and tired of hearing about another brainwashed fuck-wit blowing something up in a place I've never heard of (until recently) half way around the world. I have no doubt that if you told said idiot that most people outside of that shit-hole region really couldn't care less about their "cause" they'd be amazed. Continuing on from above, give each a bomb and a flat sandy area to use it and then bring in a bucket and shovel to clean up the mess. To all Muslims who claim Islam is a peaceful religion - prove it, show your "brothers and sister" the benefits of NOT blowing something up. That'd be the day...

Posted by: Jake D at June 12, 2003 at 12:57 PM

On the other hand, the IRA has a seat at the political table and had its bombers and murderers released from prison.

So they haven't lost, either.

Would the peace process have been quicker if the IRA hadn't been blowing things and people up? I have no idea- I'm just a dead rock singer, remember - but in any case the IRA is still kicking on as a viable political force.

Posted by: Bon Scott at June 12, 2003 at 01:03 PM

Fundamentalists are the enemy of Life, not just Peace, so they must die.
Hamas is opposed to Israeli concessions, negotiations or pacifications. Like all revolutionaries, the worse things are for the People, the better they are for the Party.
Hamas et al don't want peace, they wish to drive Jews into the sea. They want to tear up the Road Map and bring on a Helter-Skelter war between Israeli & Arab. This is worse than the most extreme Judaic fundamentalist, whose worst policy is to push Palestinians into Jordan.
The Israelis can stand up to their fundamentalists (Cf Rabin, Barak, Sharon). But the Palestinians are terrorised & brainwashed into supporting their fundamentalists.
The IDF has no choice: Israel's survival, and the hopes of moderate Paletinians, mandates that every single active & effective member of Hamas must be hunted down and mercilessly killed.

Posted by: Jack Strocchi at June 12, 2003 at 01:09 PM

I hear Gordon from Big Brother is on his way now to ride the buses in Israel.

Posted by: Mike Hunt at June 12, 2003 at 01:43 PM

Hey, Fake Dead Rockstar -- how about thinking that maybe if the IRA hadn't been so busy blowing people up they'd have gotten what they want sooner rather than later? You don't know much about history, do you? [AD HOMINEM ATTACK] Are you stupid or do you just play an idiot on MTV? [/AD HOMINEM ATTACK]

Posted by: Andrea Harris at June 12, 2003 at 02:03 PM

This from http://islam.org.au/ who appear to consider themselves moderates:

"The moment the Israeli-Palestinian confrontation entered its critical stage, the regional and international interferences began to take place in order to save the cancerous Zionist body from being eliminated by the Blessed Intifada. The Intifada has endangered the whole existence of the ‘Zionist Body’ in an unprecedented manner, inflicting heavy losses on the economic, psychological, military and human fronts. This article makes quick review of the international conspiracies, the economic losses and the suggested solution for this crisis."

Their suggested solution? Forget the peace talks - they are a conspiracy to save the doomed Jews - and stick to the "Blessed Intifada". It's going well, and it's only a matter of time before Israel is gone.

These are self-professed educated Muslims making their judgements from distant, peaceful Australia. I suspect those that are actually living in the region surrounded by Hamas are unlikely to have more conciliatory views.

Doesn't seem to be a lot of room for negotiation.

Posted by: The at June 12, 2003 at 02:13 PM

The website that you alluded to it the website of the Islamic Youth Movement in Sydney, which is pretty much Al Qaeda's information bureau in Australia. That bloke who was on 4 corners the other night is one of the editors of the magazine shown on the website. These are no moderates and I hope Asio is watching them 24 hours. The website is a pretty good look into the mindset of such terrorist clowns, but I don't think you should be judging all Australian muslims by it's content.

Posted by: pezza at June 12, 2003 at 02:26 PM

Very prescient, Tim. News.com.au reports Israeli Army Radio as saying Defence Minister Mofaz has just issued an order to the IDF to "destroy Hamas" using "any necessary means", with everyone from the lowest footsoldier to Sheikh Yassin himself a legitimate target.

Posted by: Alan Anderson at June 12, 2003 at 06:12 PM

Indeed, I know an exec member or two of the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils who are pretty damned disgusted by these lunatics.

Posted by: Steve Edwards at June 12, 2003 at 09:57 PM

Of course we all condemn the bus bombing. The PA has asked Hamas to cut it out; what more does anyone want?

It's just a shame that the Israeli response contributes to the cycle of violence.

Posted by: Alex Bensky at June 12, 2003 at 10:29 PM


I'm just trying to work out whether that was serious...

Posted by: AndyM at June 12, 2003 at 10:57 PM

"What more does anyone want?" asks Mr.Bensky (in all earnestness, I presume)

Tell you what they might want, Mr.Bensky, they might want something a little more concrete than just your meaningless, formulaic and self-serving 'condemnations'. They also might want people like you to stop insisting that the potemkin 'denouncements' from the PA should be taken remotely seriously.

"Their children have been blown to shreds on a bus but I have condemned it so that should be that. Stop complaining, will you."

Posted by: David Carr at June 12, 2003 at 11:22 PM

Why don't Israel have embedded Journalists like real defence forces? There's nothing good on TV tonight. Certainly nothing as good as seeing Hamas getting blown to hell by gunships, anyway.

Posted by: Yobbo at June 13, 2003 at 12:59 AM

With U.S. troops in Iraq, it's unlikely Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia or Egypt will mount an offensive against Israel in support of their Arab brothers unless they share the Palestinian death wish. It's a perfect time for Israel to shovel the ordure out of the stable to their east.

In fact, I wish Arik would fire up the tanks, tell the Yanks to get out of the way, and lay waste to everything east of Jerusalem...keep rolling until some tank commander says he can hear Hindi spoken.

Posted by: Theodopoulos Pherecydes at June 13, 2003 at 01:08 AM

I'm pretty sure Alex Bensky was being sarcastic. Sadly, there are people who think like that so it's hard to be sure, but most of them tend not to rite to good. Plus the lack of references to Zionist Devils gives him away.

Posted by: Sean E at June 13, 2003 at 01:17 AM

Hamas' senior leaders seem convinced that they have nothing to lose by continuing the attacks on Israeli civs. They need to be taught a different reality.

I would announce, very publicly, that EVERY member of Hamas is a target (check), then start killing any I could lay a hand to (check), and finally start pushing known members and their entire families over the Jordanian border where they came from in the first place.

Oh, you say Jordan doesn't want them? Tough noogies. They damn well get 'em.

Posted by: mojo at June 13, 2003 at 06:12 AM

Does the announcement from Israeli Defence Minister Mofaz mean that Paul Mcgeough will be targeted? After all he has repeatedly reported favourably from inside Hamas and is a known virus.

Posted by: Frank at June 13, 2003 at 09:02 AM

Andrea wrote:
Hey, Fake Dead Rockstar -- how about thinking that maybe if the IRA hadn't been so busy blowing people up they'd have gotten what they want sooner rather than later? You don't know much about history, do you? [AD HOMINEM ATTACK] Are you stupid or do you just play an idiot on MTV? [/AD HOMINEM ATTACK]

I'd already written:
Would the peace process have been quicker if the IRA hadn't been blowing things and people up? I have no idea- I'm just a dead rock singer, remember - but in any case the IRA is still kicking on as a viable political force.

So, no I may not know much about history. But, unlike you, I can read.

Posted by: Bon Scott at June 13, 2003 at 11:21 AM

The IRA were handed victory from the maws of defeat by the interfering Bill Clinto and a wussy Tony Blair.
Families of the Democratic party were a major funder of IRA -arms and money.Thactcher managed to stranle that flow after making a few facts of life clear to the Weasels of politics the Dems. and Billary.

While that was going on, the SAS and other specialists were wiping out IRA.This in itself is why IRA, agreed to `peace talks' : a bullet for each of them was in the magazine.

What has emerged since `peace-talks' is rather indicative, the specialists should have been kept in place to finish of a successful operation in exterminating vermin.

Posted by: d at June 13, 2003 at 12:02 PM

That's interesting d - according to this potted history - http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/ira/reports/america.html :

a) most US IRA supporters were conservative

b) the IRA didn't rely on American money or weapons

c) American IRA contributions peaked whenever the Brits did some thing telegenically awful - like when Thatcher let the hunger strikers starve to death in 81

But don't let facts get in the way of your paranoid raving.

Alternatively, if the meds are working right today, you could point at sources that contradict the above.

All I know is that you could always find AC/DC graf on both sides of the divide...

Posted by: Bon Scott at June 13, 2003 at 12:38 PM

Truth, the quest for truth is at stake. It is not the superstitious platonist notion of truth which is at stake. It is the truth of what is the case which is at stake, the theorems of physics, again, supply a lucid example, hard won but, on the inning elegant and elagant because truth full reflected in the sparkling translusence of formulae.
The same applies to history.This can be pointed up by those historians attacking Windschuttle, the irony being, some of those historians fabricated falsehoods and told stories.

To falsify history is not simply a betrayal of the past, it betrays the present, we use history to gain insights into the present.

Now, whether Corr decided to write a pass essay, a credit essay, or a distinction essay, was up to him.Let us note, a pass essay can be written by someone who is mastering their subject in the same amount of time or less- one has written some distinction essays in less time, without compromising evidence and basic truthfulness in content, neither of arguments nor conclusions. But Corr has compromised on each count in both essays and that is the offence.
It is not to pick on Corr alone. It is just one more amongst a myriad of the reality of what is not taught in schools , even before university.To, this states' government, from the 60's and on and their departments of education are highly culpable.

To historians who believe history is writing national stories one can only say two things.
Stories belong to great literature which remains timeless precisely because they are not history. National `stories'paraded as history are dated as soon as spun. Next, history as story is nothing but mythologising history, which is pivotal to why Windschuttle properly criticed `stolen generation' claims, for the claims are myths.

But if we ever need a warning why mythology , story, is corrupt, it need only be sought in this, it was a fundamental mistake made by German historians and philosophers and theologians during the 18th century, it misled them and with serious consequences.There is nothing `contemporanoues ' about such falsification of history.
To, reinforce this, what has taken root since the 1980's, so earnestly promoted by Manning Clarke, the function of history to produce the national story' and ``national identity' is cut of the same viscious cloth.There is nothing good in it. Indiduals are merely some lumpenmasse of mainfesting the crap of `natioanal character and spirit', people can be fulfilled only be finding meaning in life whether in some joker called god or the equally idiot `natioanl identity'.Not history, and it is a betrayal of history and beguilingly false to the present too. Immoral.

The above , bye the bye,are just a few of the reasons as to why, outside of the academy,the `humanities' are in such bad odour.

Posted by: d at June 13, 2003 at 01:22 PM

Blast, the above should have been posted under ,Stupid White Boy.

Posted by: d at June 13, 2003 at 01:24 PM

A real road map to peace: Bomb the shit out of anyone with the name Mohammed, Yussaf, Achmed and the like. It's getting more and more difficult to claim that there are some "moderate" Muslims- if so, stand up and denounce your lunatic brothers! BTW, the other day I was on the tram, and I started coughing, and some Arab thought I was swearing at him!

Posted by: Douglas at June 13, 2003 at 03:09 PM

So, "Bon Scott" -- you're agreeing with me that you are an idiot? (That aw-shucks don't-know-much-about-history jive is almost as cute as your dead rockstar act. Keep it up, it's infinitesimally amusing.)

Posted by: Andrea Harris at June 13, 2003 at 03:12 PM

I'm certainly no expert on Irish history. What I'm saying is that I'd already addressed your point and admitted I didn't know enough to give an answer.

As you'd know if you'd bothered to actually read what I'd written before you posted.

Posted by: Bon Scott at June 13, 2003 at 03:50 PM

The IRA's stated goals (deportation of all Irish Protestants and loyalists) aren't the sort of goals they will be able to achieve by peaceful means, and terrorism makes them look bad.

This is why they've taken a page out of Mein Kampf, and "reinvented" themselves as a respectable organization by telling outrageous lies until people begin to believe them.

It's a method that works fantastically well, in the short run, against democratic nations, as Hitler also proved. Fortunately, there has always been some organization that could beat back both the lying terrorists and their unwitting appeasement-minded stooges, and keep the world from being turned into an Orwellian vision.

Let's just hope nobody ever finds a way to both deceive the leftists and eliminate the rightists, at the same time.

Posted by: Tatterdemalian at June 13, 2003 at 03:55 PM

Didn't say rely ontehm, but the American connection was a major factor, annd the squeaze on that connection did squeaze IRA.

Margaret Thatcher didn't let the rotters starve to death; you said it yourself, the thinned their diets and they didn't die;a pity, however they didn't.

The connection on arms was via , shall one say, a latino route which was closed by the US because of pressure from Thatcher.
As for the Dems., too, too many of their number have a fondness for killer thugs and not just IRA.The distinction is, out of their ranks came the cash flow to IRA.

Posted by: d at June 13, 2003 at 04:23 PM

Andy and David:

We all may be simple folk out here in North Possum Holler, Michigan, but we have schools, some of us attended them, and we know what irony and sarcasm are. (I ain't sayin' nothin' about them ignoramuses over there in South Possum Holler.)

No, David, I was not being earnest. Organizations controlled by the PA carry out bloody attacks and any Israeli attempt to halt them are considered adding to the "cycle of violence." The Palis murder if the Israelis attack. The Palis murder if the Israelis don't attack.

Abbas has unveiled the heaviest weapon he intends to use against the terrorists he has undertaken to suppress: a stern warning.

Personally, I don't care what the Israelis do to defend themselves.

Posted by: Alex Bensky at June 14, 2003 at 12:02 AM


As I said, I hadn't yet reached a conclusion. Nothing surprises me these days.

Posted by: AndyM at June 14, 2003 at 01:26 AM

Another charmless thread.. how much of this shower of ignorance and ignobility would you own Mr Blair? You did bring it on rather with your intemperate lead.. which managed to mention the Israeli casualties while ignoring their Palestinian counterparts. Textbook stuff.

Posted by: Glenn at June 14, 2003 at 01:18 PM

Good Thread Tim. Islamic Fascism is bad, Glenn. Why do you support it?

Posted by: Frank at June 14, 2003 at 03:57 PM